HAZMAT Debacle

JohnO · Feb 1, 2005

The 3 NJ locations contracted for collection of fingerprints and fees are not up and running. TSA vendor is Integrated Biometric Technology who contracted out to Examination Management Services, Inc to collect fingerprints and fees. One location doesn’t have the equipment even installed as yet while the other two have been trying to get the system up and running since Friday. IBT tells you to contact ESMI for information while ESMI tells you to contact IBT for information. The system is so new nobody seems to understanding the working as yet.
Anybody out there able to clear this hurdle?

terryandrene · Feb 1, 2005

JohnO:

Will the State of NJ not issue a CDL w/HAZMAT while this is happening?

JohnO · Feb 1, 2005

They will issue CDL but not HAZMAT until you finish process.

Twmaster · Feb 1, 2005

Yay! All this fun brought to you by *your* tax dollars and the Patriot Act.

--
Mike N

Faster than a speeding poulet.

Owner/Operator Big 'B'
Experienced
10 years auto transport
2 years local/distance expedite
Laurel, MD (Washington DC area)

mvbn1 · Feb 1, 2005

Good evening everyone. Let me tell you about the issues here in Ohio. First of all, I'm currently attending a CDL-B class, so I can move into driving straight trucks, (by the way, I may be looking for a ride, if anyone has any leads

) ... anyway, there are several people in this class who have their CDL-Permit w/hazmat endorsement (including myself). With all the questions in the class about what was going on with the backgroung investigations, and, some of us talking about going to Columbus this Friday afternoon, to take care of the fingerprinting, the Director of the school and one of the instructors attempted to get answers.

After being on hold for also an hour, (calling the number listed on the www.hazprints.com website), they found out that there are only four people working in the office in Washington DC or Virginia, where ever it is, and that none of those people could answer any questions without first saying "...can you hold a moment".

After that exciting adventure, they decided to take the 1 hour ride to Columbus to the EMSI office where you can get fingerprinted. (Just a side note: There WILL be three offices in Ohio, Cincinnati, Columbus and Cleveland.) Once they arrived at the office, and explained who they were with, and why they were there, it took 15 minutes for someone to come out and speak with them.

They were told that the Cincinnati office isn't ready to open yet, maybe next Thursday. The Cleveland office doesn't even have the equipment, and the Columbus office was having major problems and wasn't doing any fingerprinting at this time.

I'm lucky, in that I can continue working, running a 1 ton extended cargo, with the company I'm currently contracted with. I only say this for one reason. If I would go and get my CDL when I finish this class, it would be issued W/O the X endorsement (HazMat/Tanker). If I want the endorsement added to my CDL after the background investigation is complete, I'll need to go back to the local license bureau, pay to get another CDP-Permit, retake the hazmat endorsement test, and get another CDL issued, with the endorsement. Total additional cost is about $65.00 ... more!

As soon as I get any more information about Ohio, I'll pass it along.

Mike in SW Ohio
2 1/2 years expediting freight
2001 Chevy 3500 extended cargo van

ATeam · Feb 1, 2005

Debacle is the right word! I hate seeing thousands upon thousands of truckers having to go through this for something that will provide little or no national security benefit. None of the 911 terrorists had pilot licenses, did they? If someone gets it in his head to use a HAZMAT truck to commit an illegal act, do you think he or she will go to the trouble to get a CDL wht HAZMAT endorsement?

What we're seeing is bureaurcatic bloat in the name of security and a decline in trucker productivity because of the half day or day it takes truckers off the road to get fingerprinted.

There is a silver lining in this cloud bank. A bunch of truck drivers will let their HAZMAT endorsements lapse rather than put up with the hassle. Some will do so because they have a past history that disqualifies them from the endorsement. That leaves more HAZMAT freight for expediters, virtually all of whom are HAZMAT endorsed.

Presumably, the law of supply and demand will kick in. In theory, there will be more HAZMAT freight to haul and at a higher price. It may be too - can we hope? - that expediter carriers will actually reimburse us for the fingerprinting fee.

Whether they do or not, Diane and I plan to get reimbursed. We'll calculate the total fees and the value of time lost due to fingerprinting (which should go smoother as they get their act together). Then, when HAZMAT loads are offered, and the circumstances are such that we think we can get away with it, ("you're the only truck in the area" "we can really use your help with this load"), we'll ask them to bump the pay to help cover our HAZMAT fingerprinting costs. We won't expect to recover all costs on a single load, but recover them we will.

Twmaster · Feb 1, 2005

>Debacle is the right word! I hate seeing thousands upon
>thousands of truckers having to go through this for
>something that will provide little or no national security
>benefit. None of the 911 terrorists had pilot licenses, did
>they? If someone gets it in his head to use a HAZMAT truck
>to commit an illegal act, do you think he or she will go to
>the trouble to get a CDL wht HAZMAT endorsement?

Agreed. Just another 'feel good' ploy by the ding-dongs inside the Beltway. None of whom have to deal with their messes.

The other thing I keep thinking about is just how much PORK is in it for the TSA appoved screener/fingerprinting ageny? What galls me more is I already have my fingerprints on file with the State of Maryland in connection with a previous state job that required a detailed background check.

>What we're seeing is bureaurcatic bloat in the name of
>security and a decline in trucker productivity because of
>the half day or day it takes truckers off the road to get
>fingerprinted.

Not just a small decline in productivity. It is yet another erosion of the people's ability to choose for themselves. What I see is our gov't sucking in all the power it can. Pulling it away from the people. Once again people with power taking power away from the common man. However that is a topic for another rant on another day.

>There is a silver lining in this cloud bank. A bunch of
>truck drivers will let their HAZMAT endorsements lapse
>rather than put up with the hassle. Some will do so because
>they have a past history that disqualifies them from the
>endorsement. That leaves more HAZMAT freight for expediters,
>virtually all of whom are HAZMAT endorsed.

Honestly I don't think it will make much of a dent. While a PITA to deal with initially the little guys like us will suck it up pay the silly fees and just do what we are told to so we can make a living. You aren't going to let -your- Haz-Mat endorsement lapse, are you? No you aren't which is my point. Some will forgo renewal but I suspect most of those folks do not need Haz-Mat for their jobs.

>Presumably, the law of supply and demand will kick in. In
>theory, there will be more HAZMAT freight to haul and at a
>higher price. It may be too - can we hope? - that expediter
>carriers will actually reimburse us for the fingerprinting
>fee.

There is -always- hope. However I would not hold my breath awaiting that.

>Whether they do or not, Diane and I plan to get reimbursed.
>We'll calculate the total fees and the value of time lost
>due to fingerprinting (which should go smoother as they get
>their act together). Then, when HAZMAT loads are offered,
>and the circumstances are such that we think we can get away
>with it, ("you're the only truck in the area" "we can really
>use your help with this load"), we'll ask them to bump the
>pay to help cover our HAZMAT fingerprinting costs. We won't
>expect to recover all costs on a single load, but recover
>them we will.

If you can get your costs back in bits and bites I say 'go for it' Just make sure that it does not turn into something dispatchers/manglement/bean counters remember. Hate to see you get bit on the a..

--
Mike N

Faster than a speeding poulet.

Owner/Operator Big 'B'
Experienced
10 years auto transport
2 years local/distance expedite
Laurel, MD (Washington DC area)

bluegoose94 · Feb 2, 2005

For all of you Michigan Drivers the office is up and working here in this state

RichM · Feb 2, 2005

He will get bit,the Carrier that he drives for has individuals that read these forums every day.To advertise that you are essentially going to hold the Company up that you are leased to and bite the hand that feeds you is INMHO foolish..

ATeam · Feb 2, 2005

>He will get bit,the Carrier that he drives for has
>individuals that read these forums every day.To advertise
>that you are essentially going to hold the Company up that
>you are leased to and bite the hand that feeds you is INMHO
>foolish..

I respectfully disagree. Since we started with our carrier (same one you drive for), we've been independent contractors free to negotiate our price. It's hardly an unusual phenomonon. Nearly every driver we've met discusses price with dispatch. Hold the company up? Hardly. We're doing nothing but seeking the recovery of our costs.

When fuel went up over $2.00 a gallon and the company asked us to drive long deadhead at $0.20 per mile, did you say yes and suck up the loss? Did you say no to avoid the loss? Or did you ask for more money to cover the additional cost you'd incur? We asked for more money. It was hardly an unreasonable request and we never once encountered a dispatcher that thought otherwise.

People sometimes mistake dispatch for their parents, high-school principal, other such authority figure, their family, or their buddy. We don't see things that way. For us, every load is a business transaction made between professionals and negotiated at a price acceptable to both parties.

Fortunately, we run with a carrier that usually offers a fair price for the services it seeks. More often than not, the offered price is sufficient and the negotiation is as simple as accepting the offer as presented. But there are times when we need more money to accept the offer. At those times, we say so and the negotiations begin. Sometimes it works to our advantage, sometimes not.

For example, we recently received a call not from dispatch but from another official in the carrier. She told us a shipper had requested a highly professional team; i.e. people that knew how to conduct themselves professionally at this particular pickup and delivery site, maintained a professional appearance, and drove a good looking truck. Much to our surprise and delight, we learned then that we qualified! It seems shippers and consignees have been commenting on our performance and those comments are now on record. WAY COOL! we thought.

The load was to pick up a specialized item in Delaware, drive it to California where it would be exhibited for a day, and return it to Delaware. We were in New York when the offer was made. Deadhead to Delaware would be required.

We of course asked what the pay would be. The amount was too low to accept. We'd likely do better running ordinary loads over the same time period. We made a counter offer at a higher rate. The carrier official said she'd check and get back to us on Monday. She then called as promised and advised us that she found another truck to cover the load.

I guess we weren't so special after all. Ha!

Highly professional and good looking? Maybe. Enough to command a higher price on that load? Nope! Ugly ducklings or beautiful people; it did not matter. We priced ourselves out of the market on that one.

Anyway, the point is, negotiating price with dispatch is commonly done, easily done, and no harm whatsoever comes to drivers for doing so. If you keep things professional, I see no problems whatsoever and have experienced none in trying to maximize the compensation for the services you provide.

Do you deserve anything less?

bluegoose94 · Feb 3, 2005

This is going to get interesting my new co-driver went for his fingerprint today it may take 3 to 4 weeks to get it back he took his hazmat test and passed just waiting on the new fingerprint. how is this going to work for the big trucking companys like swift and schendar they have trucking schools? what take the class and wait a month before you can leave on the road or take the test before they go.and when you call the number at hazprints they have no clue on how this is going to work. what about for all of us who have a hazmat now when we have to go and give our print march 31 thru may 31

JohnO · Feb 3, 2005

Well Jersey is finally up and slowly rolling with this program. Now to wait the 4 weeks for letter to get HME.
A couple points that aren’t mentioned on web or handouts:
One needs to register by phone or www.hazprints.com before making appointment to get fingerprinted.
Jersey charges $94.00.
Your application will have to be resubmitted if you don’t receive a confirmation number.
If your name uses an apostrophe don't use it, as the system will reject your application.
System times out after 15 minutes.
You can correct any mistakes when you go to have your fingerprints taken.
You need the following information when filling out application
CDL
SS
Current address
Previous address
Credit card number & expiration date if you use one

mvbn1 · Feb 3, 2005

I was speaking with the other people in our class, who had submitted their info, and the one thing I have found out, is that all of our confirmation numbers fall in a group under 1200 (has lots of zeors in front of it. This may be a good thing! If they start at the beginning, we shouldn't have long to wait. All of us are heading to Columbus (OH) tomorrow afternoon, to have the fingerprinting done. I'll let everyone know, tomorrow, how that process goes.

Mike in SW Ohio

Crazynuff · Feb 4, 2005

I didn't think you had to be printed before scheduled renewal . I could be wrong though .

JohnO · Feb 4, 2005

My confirmation number was also below 1200. The agent took 45 minutes to take my fingerprints as the computer program keep refusing his attempts.
Volunteer to be first in line.

davekc · Feb 4, 2005

The times that NJ has ever got anything right on the first try is pretty limited.
Davekc
owner
20 years

mvbn1 · Feb 4, 2005

Well... got the finger print part finished today. Only took 10 or 15 minutes, once I got inside. I was there for about an hour or so. Strange thing is, they didn't give me anything to show I had been ther, and that my FP had been taken.

Oh well...

Now to wait for the letter. Good luck to everyone in this matter.

Mike in SW Ohio

RichM · Feb 4, 2005

A Team,you and I have never met,never spoke to each other,so I am curious as too how you know what Carrier I am leased to. Have you been checking on me and if so please explain?Thanks

geo · Feb 4, 2005

i won't have to put up with this until 2009 and by then they should have all the bug's out, did mind in sept
and don't forget to keep track of when you need to renew your lic
as if you let it expire it's like the end of the world almost
and don't lose one as you will have to jump thru all kind of stuff