Have rates really dropped all that much?

[Worn Out Manager]

One day there will be an Uber style revolution in trucking, and the practice of flipping a shipment through multiple brokers / carriers will disappear. When I'm updating 3 companies PLUS my own carrier on my location, I have a pretty good idea where the money went with each taking 20%

(Edit: that 20% is an imaginary figure)

My expenses are in line with the pay. 2005 sprinter

Actually, Uber freight is already here. They are recruiting and licensing, O/O's and small carriers with trucks. They will cut out large carriers and brokers. It appears that their focus is on LTL first, but it won't take long to move in on expedite. The downside is that, like Amazon, they are also focused on driverless trucks and have purchased Otto, one of the big players. This field will be totally different looking in a couple of years, which is OK for us 60+ but not very promising for our younger members. Adapt and Change.

Sent from my hand-held Etch-A- Sketch

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Uber technology is expensive.....the van or truck still has to be insured and repaired...someone has to pay for it...I don't think it will be all that cheap at first...maybe a 100 years or so....

 

[RoadTime]

Have rates dropped?

Take this for what it's worth. A one month average of my line haul rates 5 years apart.

August 2011- Average rate 93 cents.
August 2016- Average rate 78.5 cents.


Sent from my iPhone using EO Forums

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Have rates dropped?

Take this for what it's worth. A one month average of my line haul rates 5 years apart.

August 2011- Average rate 93 cents.
August 2016- Average rate 78.5 cents.


Sent from my iPhone using EO Forums

now IF you could separate DIRECT customers (the people who actually cut the check) from Load board, Email loads,
Your .78 is about my average and we are close to 100% load board, email bid request....I know you have a % of Direct customers...doing another carrier's load is NOT a direct customer..

 

[Grizzly]

Van segment only ....

The issue with any type of Uber technology, app or otherwise, is that it may affect some brokers or carriers but prices can still trend downward. O/O are sometimes not the best ones to negotiate on their own behalf. They are simply not aware of how much $ is actually out there .. they are drivers & not business owners.

Started this week out in Denver. 2 loads this week.
Denver - Rapid City, SD: 400 lb, single pallet crate - 700 clams. Areas like this are a great opportunity to book round trip loads, half loaded-half empty, to be able to DH back to freight. Or simply keep the extra $ if one gets lucky & can get something out of the delivery location. Unfortunately most are clueless & would do this run for less than half of what I asked for. I guess I got lucky this time, it happens ...
Denver - Milwaukee: Nothing coming out of Rapid City, so came back to Denver. I really wanted to DH to Sioux Falls, but without an espar in the van those temps did not look too appetizing. 12'x1'x1' 300 lb piece - .90 per mi.

This is a good sample of what I've been doing since I started back in 6/12. Since I'm a multi carrier it's all base rate, never received any FSC. I've only handled a few shipments under .90 & never taken one for under .80. I've handled plenty for $1 or more. Of course sticking to these prices does have a downside. I'm simply not as competitive & can be running more loads. My DH % is less than most at 5-10%. All in all, gross numbers have been somewhat consistent for the past 4+ yrs. Last winter was an aberration .. I hope! Big savings in lower fuel prices, the lower the better!

Edit: Have I ever put less than .80 per mi on a load? Yes. They've never been awarded to me. Long mileage, bullseye home loads. I imagine there were better offers. I either got loads that paid better per mi or DH out.

 

[piper1]

So the base rates are the same as they were 9 years ago....

That's progress?

Cost of tires, food, vehicles, maintenance...
Rates charged to originating shipper....

Profit?

Are they the same as 9 years ago?

 

[xiggi]

Van segment only ....

The issue with any type of Uber technology, app or otherwise, is that it may affect some brokers or carriers but prices can still trend downward. O/O are sometimes not the best ones to negotiate on their own behalf. They are simply not aware of how much $ is actually out there .. they are drivers & not business owners.

Started this week out in Denver. 2 loads this week.
Denver - Rapid City, SD: 400 lb, single pallet crate - 700 clams. Areas like this are a great opportunity to book round trip loads, half loaded-half empty, to be able to DH back to freight. Or simply keep the extra $ if one gets lucky & can get something out of the delivery location. Unfortunately most are clueless & would do this run for less than half of what I asked for. I guess I got lucky this time, it happens ...
Denver - Milwaukee: Nothing coming out of Rapid City, so came back to Denver. I really wanted to DH to Sioux Falls, but without an espar in the van those temps did not look too appetizing. 12'x1'x1' 300 lb piece - .90 per mi.

This is a good sample of what I've been doing since I started back in 6/12. Since I'm a multi carrier it's all base rate, never received any FSC. I've only handled a few shipments under .90 & never taken one for under .80. I've handled plenty for $1 or more. Of course sticking to these prices does have a downside. I'm simply not as competitive & can be running more loads. My DH % is less than most at 5-10%. All in all, gross numbers have been somewhat consistent for the past 4+ yrs. Last winter was an aberration .. I hope! Big savings in lower fuel prices, the lower the better!

Edit: Have I ever put less than .80 per mi on a load? Yes. They've never been awarded to me. Long mileage, bullseye home loads. I imagine there were better offers. I either got loads that paid better per mi or DH out.

I'm confused, in your.denver.example it looked.like 50 percent dh but you go on the say 5 - 10 percent. I've always considered repositioning myself to a better area dh.

 

[davekc]

Everything will change just like it always has. Yes, vans will still feel the greatest impact because of market saturation. Still will be money to be made. It will be a little different for straights and tractors but you still have to drill down to the basic concept. You still are trying to move something from A to B. The middle brokers would be the first to go or take a significant hit. Already starting actually. Other specialty loads won't just show up on a app. Too many things involved on those type of loads for that to happen.

 

[Grizzly]

Van segment only ....

The issue with any type of Uber technology, app or otherwise, is that it may affect some brokers or carriers but prices can still trend downward. O/O are sometimes not the best ones to negotiate on their own behalf. They are simply not aware of how much $ is actually out there .. they are drivers & not business owners.

Started this week out in Denver. 2 loads this week.
Denver - Rapid City, SD: 400 lb, single pallet crate - 700 clams. Areas like this are a great opportunity to book round trip loads, half loaded-half empty, to be able to DH back to freight. Or simply keep the extra $ if one gets lucky & can get something out of the delivery location. Unfortunately most are clueless & would do this run for less than half of what I asked for. I guess I got lucky this time, it happens ...
Denver - Milwaukee: Nothing coming out of Rapid City, so came back to Denver. I really wanted to DH to Sioux Falls, but without an espar in the van those temps did not look too appetizing. 12'x1'x1' 300 lb piece - .90 per mi.

This is a good sample of what I've been doing since I started back in 6/12. Since I'm a multi carrier it's all base rate, never received any FSC. I've only handled a few shipments under .90 & never taken one for under .80. I've handled plenty for $1 or more. Of course sticking to these prices does have a downside. I'm simply not as competitive & can be running more loads. My DH % is less than most at 5-10%. All in all, gross numbers have been somewhat consistent for the past 4+ yrs. Last winter was an aberration .. I hope! Big savings in lower fuel prices, the lower the better!

Edit: Have I ever put less than .80 per mi on a load? Yes. They've never been awarded to me. Long mileage, bullseye home loads. I imagine there were better offers. I either got loads that paid better per mi or DH out.

I'm confused, in your.denver.example it looked.like 50 percent dh but you go on the say 5 - 10 percent. I've always considered repositioning myself to a better area dh.

Nothing to be confused about grasshopper....
That 5-10% figure is an annual % not per load ..

 

[dc843]

So I'm confused on the brokers? are the brokers just getting freight off of load boards and then assigning whatever OO is interested? or is it like they have to do a lot of networking with shippers to get the load then has the power of getting his cut cause he got the load direct from the shipper? How does a person start brokering freight that seems like such a better gig...

 

[Moot]

I've posted this a few times in the past and here it is again. This is one expedite carrier's rate sheet from 1997. I cropped out the "A" unit column. I did haul some "A" loads at "A" unit rates but I don't believe there was ever an "A" unit in the fleet. At least I never saw one.
.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

I've posted this a few times in the past and here it is again. This is one expedite carrier's rate sheet from 1997. I cropped out the "A" unit column. I did haul some "A" loads at "A" unit rates but I don't believe there was ever an "A" unit in the fleet. At least I never saw one.
.

I also remember back in the day...
25% surcharge for team load
25% surcharge for Hazmat
20% surcharge for load run over a Holiday
25% East coast Surcharge
10% Surcharge for Sunday

Detention time started after 15 minutes and was counted on the total run.....If you waited an hr to load...that would be 45 paid...if you waited an hour to unload...another 45 minutes paid...Total detention time on Pro Number...none of this 2 hrs on both end crap...to give away 4 hours of my time!!!!! What the Heck you carriers thinking..

 

[Treadmill]

I've posted this a few times in the past and here it is again. This is one expedite carrier's rate sheet from 1997. I cropped out the "A" unit column. I did haul some "A" loads at "A" unit rates but I don't believe there was ever an "A" unit in the fleet. At least I never saw one.
.

I also remember back in the day...
25% surcharge for team load
25% surcharge for Hazmat
20% surcharge for load run over a Holiday
25% East coast Surcharge
10% Surcharge for Sunday

Detention time started after 15 minutes and was counted on the total run.....If you waited an hr to load...that would be 45 paid...if you waited an hour to unload...another 45 minutes paid...Total detention time on Pro Number...none of this 2 hrs on both end crap...to give away 4 hours of my time!!!!! What the Heck you carriers thinking..

I remember those days well. Sure miss those days.

 

[jelliott]

Supply and demand is the ultimate driver of price. The van world is over run with vans running for multiple carriers. It totally disrupts the basic law of 1 load 1 vehicle with 1 load and 3 carriers all fighting to get it for the same vehicle. Who wins...the lowest bid and all for the same darn vehicle. Honestly the ease of creation of the multi van carrier and the owner operators who flocked to it have done more to destroy their own market then anything in my opinion. Traditional carriers margins and brokers margins have not changed much and they have not gone up, that is for sure.

 

[jelliott]

Amazon is secretly building an 'Uber for trucking' app, setting its sights on a massive $800 billion market

 

[Perioodic]

Supply and demand is the ultimate driver of price. The van world is over run with vans running for multiple carriers. It totally disrupts the basic law of 1 load 1 vehicle with 1 load and 3 carriers all fighting to get it for the same vehicle. Who wins...the lowest bid and all for the same darn vehicle. Honestly the ease of creation of the multi van carrier and the owner operators who flocked to it have done more to destroy their own market then anything in my opinion. Traditional carriers margins and brokers margins have not changed much and they have not gone up, that is for sure.

I was sitting in Missouri a few months ago and I met a guy running for a fleet owner and the van was leased onto 6 different carriers. He was trying to go home to NYC and a load popped up heading there, his first carrier called and he put in a bid, then his second carrier called and he put in an even lower bid by 5c, and finally the third carrier called me he bid 5c lower than the previous bid. I was amazed at how much he was undercutting HIMSELF.

 

[jelliott]

EXACTLY my point!!!! The concept is madness and self defeating to the owner operator. Plus the financial burden of things like the insurance are all shifted to the owner operator.

 

[Treadmill]

Supply and demand is the ultimate driver of price. The van world is over run with vans running for multiple carriers. It totally disrupts the basic law of 1 load 1 vehicle with 1 load and 3 carriers all fighting to get it for the same vehicle. Who wins...the lowest bid and all for the same darn vehicle. Honestly the ease of creation of the multi van carrier and the owner operators who flocked to it have done more to destroy their own market then anything in my opinion. Traditional carriers margins and brokers margins have not changed much and they have not gone up, that is for sure.

I was sitting in Missouri a few months ago and I met a guy running for a fleet owner and the van was leased onto 6 different carriers. He was trying to go home to NYC and a load popped up heading there, his first carrier called and he put in a bid, then his second carrier called and he put in an even lower bid by 5c, and finally the third carrier called me he bid 5c lower than the previous bid. I was amazed at how much he was undercutting HIMSELF.

If I was going the route of multi carrier and had multiple calls for the same load, my approach would be to bid all at the same rate and let the one with the most pull get the load. Not keep dropping the rate for each carrier that called. That is just STUPID.

 

[Perioodic]

If I was going the route of multi carrier and had multiple calls for the same load, my approach would be to bid all at the same rate and let the one with the most pull get the load. Not keep dropping the rate for each carrier that called. That is just STUPID.

Of course. I'd do the same thing.

 

[scottm4211]

Supply and demand is the ultimate driver of price. The van world is over run with vans running for multiple carriers. It totally disrupts the basic law of 1 load 1 vehicle with 1 load and 3 carriers all fighting to get it for the same vehicle. Who wins...the lowest bid and all for the same darn vehicle. Honestly the ease of creation of the multi van carrier and the owner operators who flocked to it have done more to destroy their own market then anything in my opinion. Traditional carriers margins and brokers margins have not changed much and they have not gone up, that is for sure.

I was sitting in Missouri a few months ago and I met a guy running for a fleet owner and the van was leased onto 6 different carriers. He was trying to go home to NYC and a load popped up heading there, his first carrier called and he put in a bid, then his second carrier called and he put in an even lower bid by 5c, and finally the third carrier called me he bid 5c lower than the previous bid. I was amazed at how much he was undercutting HIMSELF.

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