dieseldiva
Veteran Expediter
Sometimes it becomes necessary for good people to "take to the streets" to stop evil.....this was ONE OF THOSE TIMES..
God Bless This Town Of Patriots.....
- Thread starter dieseldiva
- Start date
Ah, America the Beautiful. That's what it's all about! American patriots gathering together to squash the free speech rights of other Americans.
Free speech rights do NOT extend to interrupting PRIVATE functions.
Don't be silly. Of course it does. You just can't trespass or otherwise infringe on the rights of others while doing it.
dieseldiva
Veteran Expediter
Ah, America the Beautiful. That's what it's all about! American patriots gathering together to squash the free speech rights of other Americans.
From the article, it sounded like the Patriots were basically doing the same thing that the so-called church group intended to do, they just happened to get there first, took all the parking spots, and when the freaks saw them there, they left......mission accomplished.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Not to p*ss you off diva but I am wondering why the word patriot?
I understand they are not doing this for the country but for the people who fallen. They are fighting an injustice that would have victimized their community as much as the family of the fallen.
I wish more would do this.
I understand they are not doing this for the country but for the people who fallen. They are fighting an injustice that would have victimized their community as much as the family of the fallen.
I wish more would do this.
Good for them! That sorry bunch of trash Phelps leads should be turned away from everywhere that decent people inhabit and yes, I am making a judgment and no I don't care who disagrees with me or dislikes my opinion. They are scum and that's all there is to it.
dieseldiva
Veteran Expediter
My question back to you is, why NOT the word patriot? This group of people, IMHO, is a group of Patriots.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
I agree with you Leo, I would like to see a better effort to get rid of them - more religious counter effort that is among the other groups who proclaim a righteous position in the world.
Opp Diva, sorry didn't see that.
I look at it as a community thing, not a country thing.
Having the effort made not to allow that in their country can't be done without extra effort being made but in their community they can and proved that any community can do anything they want when they stick together.
The support for the country would come if they made the same stand everywhere Phelps shows up, which I would pitch in to help support.
The second thing I see is that Patriot is getting to be overused, not really by you but by commentators and entertainers - like "you're a great American" - it is used not really in the right context of an action, but people who faithfully pay their taxes can be also patriots.
So maybe you are right in using it here.
Opp Diva, sorry didn't see that.
I look at it as a community thing, not a country thing.
Having the effort made not to allow that in their country can't be done without extra effort being made but in their community they can and proved that any community can do anything they want when they stick together.
The support for the country would come if they made the same stand everywhere Phelps shows up, which I would pitch in to help support.
The second thing I see is that Patriot is getting to be overused, not really by you but by commentators and entertainers - like "you're a great American" - it is used not really in the right context of an action, but people who faithfully pay their taxes can be also patriots.
So maybe you are right in using it here.
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Thanks, Diva, for posting it - made me smile.
Phelps and his 'congregation' [his family, mostly] have abused both freedom of speech and tolerance of religion to cram their views down the throats of people at a time when they're most vulnerable, [like the pro life picketers at Planned Parenthood clinics], and it's good to see folks standing up to the bullies.
Phelps and his 'congregation' [his family, mostly] have abused both freedom of speech and tolerance of religion to cram their views down the throats of people at a time when they're most vulnerable, [like the pro life picketers at Planned Parenthood clinics], and it's good to see folks standing up to the bullies.
NO! Freedom of speech ENDS when others rights are trashed. Freedom of one's religion, freedom to bury you own dead trump everything else. Freedom is NOT license. Every RIGHT carries with it a equal or GREATER responsibility. Either accept that responsibility or you giver up the right.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Sorry Joe, the problem is that not one person's rights are trashed with them protesting in the form that they are using.
NOT BEING offended is not a right.
AND I absolutely disagree that there is a freedom to bury your own dead, that is not a right and never was. Freedom is a license within limits.
NO one is taking the rights away with a protest, no one is doing anything but being absolutely distasteful and hijacking a religion to espouse a form of hate that is protected.
What the community did was confront them, they did not take the right away to say anything, they didn't even prevent them from actually demonstrating but confronting them was enough to change their minds. That I hope to see more of until this group goes away.
EVEN IF you don't like what they are doing, the unfortunate thing is that they have more of a right to do it than one does holding a ceremony for the dead. Free speech that is not destructive, free expression that does not harm trumps all.
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I was taught respect for others, I give it, I expect the same in return. I would be willing to be if that was your son's funeral you would not be so understanding. NO ONE has the RIGHT to protest a fallen soldiers funeral. I don't care what any one says and NO ONE can change my mind. Try it at a relative of mine funeral. I would drop them like a bad habit. If I were not in this business I would most likely be in those honor guards that keep that kind of SCUM away from military funerals. Those who died over there are my brothers. Family. That is how it is.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
I was too but I was also taught that there is no right not to be offended. Social decorum and cultural habits are not included in the constitution and shouldn't be. When they do appear there, it is a worthless piece of paper which we can forget.
Actually I may not give a crap, even though I have been to a bunch in my life, it isn't something I dwell on much. I am a funny person when it comes down to sacrifices and the military, I believe that one doesn't remember someone at the time of burial but rather all the time. It is important for you to understand that I was brought up to believe that the military is there to protect us and our country, not our way of life. There is a difference because our way of life changes and the country doesn't. This doesn't mean I discount the sacrifices but rather understand them and without them, we would not have a country. I also feel there is more than just military who fight for this country in ways that we never see, and YOU KNOW what I mean by that.
Not trying to change your mind, but rather point out the hypocrisy involved.
The problem is they can protest at a funeral, it is their right and a solider is no more special than a common citizen when it comes to these rights - like it or not there is absolutely no qualifying mechanism in the constitution that distinguishes the difference between one or the other or protects one over another from freedoms that everyone has. It is a clear cut issue, although an emotional one I grant you, that the rights are to be equally applied as in it is a right enjoyed by all not singled out by race, creed or religion.
Well I agree with you to a point, violence is not the answer though what this community did IS. It is important that communities do this and I will support them and others who take the non-violent approach to stopping this idiot and his followers. I am of the opinion that he is as dangerous as Osama and more so than Manson ever was.
See here is the problem for me, I would like to see a law passed that would remove them from the scene. Maybe an IRS law or something else that would put them out of the picture but it won't stop them. If we have a law that says there can't be a protest at a funeral, then it can be expended from there. May be there would be a law against people who are Italian who want to enjoy bocce ball on Saturday afternoons or one that says bloggers can't spread information unless it is passed through the department of Propaganda first. We already have thought police style laws in the form of hate laws and in many ways all of them are the worst thing that has happened to our rights. How can we actually judge a person by what we think he has done has to do with his hate and not his reasoning or sanity?
SO the best thing is to understand that there is no right not to be offended and to discourage those who want to act like a**holes by being consistent in your message and showing a united front.
AMonger
Veteran Expediter
Nope. When you attach a responsibility to a right, it ceases being a right.
Must have went to a different school than I did. I was taught that every right, every thing we do in life, requires responsibility. Like owning firearms, once you own one you have a responsibility to use it correctly, store is safely etc. Having the right to own one does not allow you to just shoot it any time and any place you feel like it. Yeah, every right carries a responsibility. At least it does in my world.
Gegg, I must take exception to one statement in your comments " free expressions that does not harm trumps all".
I just returned from escorting a fall Soldier from Afganistan to Joliet, Il he was just a PFC, killed in combat, if you could have seen the Parents and the people lining the route, I don't think the word hurt covers it, devastated may be stronger. If the church group shows, so be it.
I just returned from escorting a fall Soldier from Afganistan to Joliet, Il he was just a PFC, killed in combat, if you could have seen the Parents and the people lining the route, I don't think the word hurt covers it, devastated may be stronger. If the church group shows, so be it.
AMonger
Veteran Expediter
If you own a gun, you have a moral and ethical responsibility to use and store it correctly, etc, but no such responsibility that affects your right.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
I understand what you are saying and feel for all of them but the problem is that no person is more important than those rights - period.
The harm I speak of is physical, not mental because of a simple issue that mental harm is not seen or measured and is subjective to the person(s) who make the claim. If Phelps showed up, it is still their right until they actually harm someone physically or caused their harm.
To me we got to get away from this idea that we need to have a right no to be offended, it leads us to a lot of serious problems and issues that overshadow our other rights to the point that they can't be applied. Hate laws are one, discrimination laws are another that screwed up the country and make it as we are a country trying to move backwards.
As bad as I sound, I am consistent in my support of the Constitution. I am not like some who want to pattern its use to fit one or the other agenda or some social need, like funerals. I absolutely hate Phelps, hate is the word I used because I can't think of anything else but it is his right as it is others right to do what they do even though I am deeply offended. The document was written to be broad to allow these things to happen because the people who wrote it understood society does not stay static.