Gingrich warns Obama

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
Impeachments are rare, but fascinating. In an interview with Newsmax this week, former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich warned that Obama's pronouncement his administration would no longer defend the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) could lead to a constitutional crisis. Gingrich makes the point America is a nation ruled by law, not ruled by men or a single man. Moreover, Gingrich reminds Obama that he as president is not a one-man Supreme Court who gets to unilaterally decide which laws are unconstitutional. Gingrich suggests the GOP led House of Representatives may draw upon some of their unique Constitutionally granted powers to counter Obama's refusal to follow the Constitution ... in both the letter and spirit of the law.

Hints of impeachment? The trial balloon has been set loose. Gingrich is standing on solid ground with his reasoning. If Obama is smart (the jury's still out on this) he will backpedal quickly. Otherwise, the mutterings will become a howl as Americans come to understand what our imperial president thinks of US law. Red meat for the masses.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Obama want to either be king or a benevolent dictator. Benevolent only until someone challenges his power. He has an intense hatred of the Constitution and will do ANYTHING to dismantle it.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
with as little respect i have for him, i surpised he has lasted this long...........

Don't count on the Congress doing much. They are, for the most part, no better then he is. Even IF the house did go after him the Senate would let him off. Just as they did Clinton. After all both house passed the unconstitutional Obama care. It will take AT LEAST 5 or 6 more elections with the People telling those bums to shape up or ship out to straighten this mess out. That is if it can be.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Newt is a slime ball...how can anyone take him seriously...He can't even take his oath of marriage seriously....just another Clinton...with a pecker problem....

Even Layout said once how can you trust someone who'd cheat on their own wife...if he doesn't respect the wife do ya really think he cares about the voters...
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Newt is a slime ball...how can anyone take him seriously...He can't even take his oath of marriage seriously....just another Clinton...with a pecker problem....

Even Layout said once how can you trust someone who'd cheat on their own wife...if he doesn't respect the wife do ya really think he cares about the voters...

Newt has nothing to do with Obama and his hatred of the Constitution. Obama has NO LEGAL authority to chose to either enforce or not enforce a law that was passed by the congress and signed into law.

Even a slime ball like Newt is right once in a while. Just as Clinton was when he attacked Iraq because they had WMD's.

I don't like Newt (a ReBumLiCan) and I don't like Clinton (a Dum-O-Crat) and I have NO USE for Obama a flaming socialist.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Newt has nothing to do with Obama and his hatred of the Constitution. Obama has NO LEGAL authority to chose to either enforce or not enforce a law that was passed by the congress and signed into law.

Even a slime ball like Newt is right once in a while. Just as Clinton was when he attacked Iraq because they had WMD's.

I don't like Newt (a ReBumLiCan) and I don't like Clinton (a Dum-O-Crat) and I have NO USE for Obama a flaming socialist.


Even a slime ball like me right once and awhile...*LOL*

it must be almost my time to be right...I am on a roll of wrongs lately....
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Even a slime ball like me right once and awhile...*LOL*

it must be almost my time to be right...I am on a roll of wrongs lately....


You are NOT a slime ball, at least not yet any way!! :p You have just strayed a bit, you need to get back to being the "gaudy shorts" OVM!! THAT OVM is FUN! Relax, go ice fishing, throw a snow ball or two, that will fix it.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
You are NOT a slime ball, at least not yet any way!! :p You have just strayed a bit, you need to get back to being the "gaudy shorts" OVM!! THAT OVM is FUN! Relax, go ice fishing, throw a snow ball or two, that will fix it.

I know exactly what ya mean.....;)
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
The first thing that comes to mind is

AND so?

I even said it was an impeachable offense, so Gingrich who resigned because of a phone call has the ear of the president?

NOT

His impact has to do with the exact problem we have in this country, as Witness seems to point out with Beck - we listen to entertainers who we accept as experts. Newt is doing the "I need exposure so I will talk on these shows and sell more books" thing, like others who have faded and came back as "experts".

Maybe people don't get that Newtly there was part of the same congress that usurped the Constitution with a lot of these laws that Clinton wanted to pass, maybe one was the Brady Bill?

Less we forget that congress, the congress that gave us the foundation of the housing crisis and a lot of our problems today, has done many things that when closely examined is a congress of compromise and failed promises.

AND what amazes me is the clinging onto the notion that Newt et. al. seem to be the ones who are driving the tea party to victory by those who also firmly believe that Reagan was the original US messiah.

OH and the other even more amazing thing is people actually think he would make a great president.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Newt is a nobody that runs his mouth. Nothing more. It is still an impeachable offense. Not that anything will be down. Congress is stocked with cowards. If they DO try it the Senate will balk and the media will whine on for hours about "overturning" the "will of the people" forgetting that fact that congress is REQUIRED to uphold the Constitution up to and including getting rid of a president who won't.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Gingrich is standing on solid ground with his reasoning.
Actually he's not. Perhaps instead of being a history major he should have gone to law school. Twice the Reagan administration refused to defend laws it felt were unconstitutional (1982 IRS versus Bob Jones University, and in 1983 where the DOJ joined with the plaintiff petitioning the Court of Appeals for review of a deportation order that the plaintiff believed to be unconstitutional). Bush I did it in Metro Broadcasting v. FCC and Bush II did it with ACLU v Mineta. In the ACLU case, just the same as Holder has done here with the DOMA, the Solicitor General explained the administration’s decision in a letter to Congress where he wrote, “the government does not have a viable argument to advance in the statute’s defense and will not appeal the district court’s decision.”

All in all, thirteen times the president's administration has refused to enforce laws it felt were unconstitutional, and in many of those cases the laws were on the books for a while.

Under federal law, the President is required to inform Congress when the DOJ chooses not to support the constitutionality of a particular act of Congress. The legal justification for these actions has long been accepted law and goes to the very oath of office that Newt seems to feel the president is violating in his DOMA decision.

One of the greatest threats to the Constitution is the enactment and enforcement of unconstitutional laws that exceed the powers of government. The president takes an oath to “preserve, protect, and defend” the Constitution. His duty to uphold the Constitution supersedes his obligation to enforce federal statutes when the two come into conflict. After all, federal statutes are only legitimate in so far as they are constitutional.

George Washington was the first to do it, and presidents ever since have exercised their own judgment in assessing the constitutionality of federal laws, and have not simply deferred to the courts or to Congress. Each branch of government has an independent responsibility to assess the constitutionality of current and proposed laws. This is not incompatible with the duty of the president or Congress to obey judicial decisions that strike down a statute, since the Constitution gives the courts jurisdiction over all cases arising under it. But if the courts haven’t yet ruled on the issue, nothing prevents the president or Congress from making a considered independent judgment that the statute is nonetheless unconstitutional and acting accordingly.

As Justice Scalia noted in Freytag v Commissioner, 501 US 868, 1991,
Thus, it was not enough simply to repose the power to execute the laws (or to appoint) in the President; it was also necessary to provide him with the means to resist legislative encroachment upon that power. The means selected were various, including a separate political constituency, to which he alone was responsible, and the power to veto encroaching laws, see Art. I, 7, or even to disregard them when they are unconstitutional.
I don't know which is worse, Gingrich running around spouting lies, or a citizenry so uninformed that they lap it up as gospel. The constitutionality of a law doesn't depend on whether you are agree with it, it depends on whether or not it's constitutional. If any branch of government feels a particular law or an application of the law is unconstitutional, they have an obligation under the constitution to not enforce it.

It should also be noted that, according to the letter from Holder, the President's administration is only declining to defend the constitutionality of Section 3 which deals with forbidding federal government recognition of same sex marriages contracted in the states, while continuing to argue the provisions in DOMA that allow states to refuse to recognize same-sex marriages contracted elsewhere.

And, just because the President or his AG refuses to enforce a law doesn't mean the law won't have able defenders elsewhere. In the Bob Jones case mentioned above where the Reagan administration refused to defend an IRS policy denying tax exemptions to a university that practiced racial segregation for religious reasons, the IRS policies, and not the Bob Jones University policies, were ultimately upheld by the Supreme Court, as other able lawyers were found to defend them. The same thing may very well end up happening with the DOMA, as there are states with certain tax benefits from federally recognized marriages, and some of all of these states could very well defend the Act.

So no, Gingrich isn't on solid ground with his reasoning at all. He's just flat out wrong. If he's going to try to make the point that America is a nation ruled by law, then he should probably know what those laws are which pertain to the President and Congress, especially since, you know, he used to be a legislator and is considering running for President.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Should then be kicked down to a lower court to determine the constitutionality of the law? Did Obama do this. News is bad, all I heard is that he will not enforce. I thought only the courts could determine constitutionality. Not that our SC is worth a flip anymore.

Obama also seems to be rather "selective" in his "defense" of the Constitution. (not that any other pres was any better) He is pushing the unconstitutional Obama care making up reasons he is allowed to do so and then nixing this law, which IS likely unconstitutional as well. He only backs extreme left wing wacko stuff. Not that it is all that surprising.
 

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
Yes, Newt will always be a lightning rod for his detractors. That aside, these hilarious attempts to depict Gingrich as having an ignorant or wrong understanding of the legislative process or inner workings of Congress is just that... hilarious.

Gingrich fully appreciates the system of checks and balances established between the three branches of federal government. Gingrich understands the threat to our form of constitutional government that could be wrought by a power mad renegade president who has a penchant for "deeming" proposals into law or rendering a law moot by refusing to put the full executive branch authority behind it.

No one here is saying Gingrich will or should run for president. That possibility remains unanswered. What is certain is the indisputable fact Newt Gingrich is a political genius of the first magnitude. He really has no peers. Newt is to political science what Stephen Hawking is to physics. Truly, a one of a kind wonder. The Left has no stalwart to rival Newt's brainpower. For this reason alone, they despise him. Take the 50 brightest minds the Left has to offer and Newt would reduce them to sniveling crybabies who would soil themselves from fear. Newt's mind is the equivalent of a rightwing thermonuclear bomb... while all the American Left can muster collectively is a broken water pistol. Newt can see more and see farther than Leftwing mortals. Newt sees through Obama and Obama knows this.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Yes, Newt will always be a lightning rod for his detractors. That aside, these hilarious attempts to depict Gingrich as having an ignorant or wrong understanding of the legislative process or inner workings of Congress is just that... hilarious.
I don't recall anyone trying to depict that Gingrich lacks proper understanding of the legislative process or inner workings of Congress. What he's wrong about is an administration's decision regarding the constitutionality of a law and whether or not to enforce it.

Gingrich fully appreciates the system of checks and balances established between the three branches of federal government.
In order to fully appreciate the system of checks and balances he has to first understand it. Clearly he doesn't. The Constitution is quite clear on this. If any branch of government feels a law unconstitutional, they have an obligation to question or not enforce it.

Gingrich understands the threat to our form of constitutional government that could be wrought by a power mad renegade president who has a penchant for "deeming" proposals into law or rendering a law moot by refusing to put the full executive branch authority behind it.
Oh, we all understand that one. Good grief. Gingrich shows no special understanding here.

No one here is saying Gingrich will or should run for president. That possibility remains unanswered. What is certain is the indisputable fact Newt Gingrich is a political genius of the first magnitude. He really has no peers. Newt is to political science what Stephen Hawking is to physics. Truly, a one of a kind wonder.
The same Stephen Hawking who states flatly that God did not create the universe and because of M-Theory the universe created itself out of nothing? That Stephen Hawking? You may be right.
 

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
Stephen Hawking can hold any view of God he pleases. It's one man's opinion. Why bring religion into the discussion except to muddy the water?
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Stephen Hawking can hold any view of God he pleases. It's one man's opinion. Why bring religion into the discussion except to muddy the water?
I didn't bring religion into the discussion. I'm just checking to make sure you are talking about the same Stephen Hawking that I'm thinking of, especially since you've equaled Newt and Hawking so tightly. People usually draw such close equating correlations when they strongly agree with the positions and philosophies of each. The correlation between the two just struck me as odd, so I was just checkin' to make sure I didn't misunderstand.

Might I suggest, if you are going to equate Gingrich with a scientific mind, that it should be Einstein. At least Einstein said, "God is in the details," whereas Hawking is looking at the details and saying, "God ain't here."
 

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
I didn't bring religion into the discussion. I'm just checking to make sure you are talking about the same Stephen Hawking that I'm thinking of, especially since you've equaled Newt and Hawking so tightly. People usually draw such close equating correlations when they strongly agree with the positions and philosophies of each. The correlation between the two just struck me as odd, so I was just checkin' to make sure I didn't misunderstand.

Might I suggest, if you are going to equate Gingrich with a scientific mind, that it should be Einstein. At least Einstein said, "God is in the details," whereas Hawking is looking at the details and saying, "God ain't here."
Might I suggest, if you are going to equate Hawking with a religious mind, that it should be someone such as Franklin Graham.
 
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Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
...The Constitution is quite clear on this. If any branch of government feels a law unconstitutional, they have an obligation to question or not enforce it.
I'd like to see where the Constitution is "quite clear" that any branch of government has an obligation to not enforce a duly enacted law. Maybe challenge the law under the appellate processes provided by law? Sure, that happens fairly often. But if the Constitution allows the Executive Branch to ignore laws it doesn't like, Bush could have ignored Roe v. Wade. If the Republicans take control of the Senate next year, the Legislative branch could just ignore Obamacare if they don't have the votes to repeal it altogether.
The same Stephen Hawking who states flatly that God did not create the universe and because of M-Theory the universe created itself out of nothing? That Stephen Hawking? You may be right.
Anybody that knows anything about Hawking is aware of his atheism. I seriously doubt that any of us has the depth of understanding in M-theory to question whether or not Hawking's propositions hold water. The point is that he's the premier intellect in his field - and that's beyond question.

Personally, I do hope Gingrich runs for President so we can see him lock horns with the other candidates in debate. IMHO there's not another Democrat or GOP candidate around so far that comes even close to him in the field of ideas and outright intellect; and although it probably will never happen, I'd really like to see him debate one-on-one with Obama. The moderator would probably have to invoke the mercy rule to save BHO in that one.
 
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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Might I suggest, if you are going to equate Hawking with a religious mind, that it should be someone such as Franklin Graham.
If I ever have a reason to equate Hawking with a religious mind, I'll keep your suggestion in mind, thanks.
 
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