fuel cost

Riverbob1

Expert Expediter
Prior to becoming an expedite truck operator, I made my living, for over twenty-six years, in the oil and gas well drilling business. I was fortunate to have done a good deal of traveling about. I met and spoke to a lot of people over the years. The oil business is an area I know something about. Not alot mind you, but I picked up a little along the way.

Regarding George Bush and the price of diesel fuel: Could someone please explain to me exactly what control President Bush is supposed to be able to exert on the foreign nations we purchase our oil products from and how much we're forced to pay for those products.

In my view, the simple answer is: Very little!!

We buy most of our oil from countries in the Middle East. These folks are not our friends. They charge what the market will bear for their oil. We receive no volume discounts.

We buy next from countries in South and Central America. These folks are not our friends either. They too charge us full price for the oil we buy.

Third on the list is Canada. Most Canadian folk are our friends, but they don't discount the oil they sell us.

Regarding the small portion of the oil we use daily in this country that actually comes from wells in this country....Few are aware that well over seventy-five percent of the oil produced in America comes from wells drilled and produced by small, mostly privately-owned independant companies, not from the major oil companies.

Further: In the early 1980's, there were over 4,800 drilling rigs working on oil and gas wells in this country. Last I checked, that number had been reduced to somewhere around 1,800. The reason for the reduction in active drilling rigs was due in large part to the fact that, beginning under the Regan administration, and continuing thru the administrations of George Bush senior, and Bill Clinton, many of the tax incentives that had previously been offered to oil companies to encourage domestic drilling (brought about by domestic finacial investors)were one after the other rescinded.

To the loss of the financial incentives that had, historically, encouraged folks to make the risky investments that allowed other folks to hop around drilling holes in the ground, factor in the additional costs added to drilling wells and producing oil by modern, environmentally-responsable practices, as well as myriad other regulatory issues too numerous to mention. A bleak picture emerged.

For reasons I'll never fully undersatand, drilling wells in America simply became too expensive and too much of a pain in the a--! I don't know if this was by design, or simple happenstance. The result is the same. The people with sufficient knowledge of the technology and of the business and who had the financial wherewithall to do so largely went elsewhere to seek their fortunes. So did their investors. They're drilling wells in locations where they can make money. By and large, so are the major oil companies. Isn't that why you and I are doing what we're doing....to make money?

Additionally, America's ability to refine oil into gasoline and diesel fuel is compromised by our aging refineries. I read recently we haven't built a new refinery in America in over thirty years. Imagine trying to make a living in a truck with a thirty-year old engine and transmission design. I knew it had been a while since I'd heard about a new refinery coming online; but thirty years.......

For these and myriad other reasons, America is currently in a situation where we're producing very little of the petroleum products we use here every day. We're not only buying a huge amount of crude oil from foreign countries, and at really high prices, but we're also paying others to refine a good deal of it into diesel fuel and gasoline for us. We used to do this ourselves.

Blaming George Bush for this kind of nuts. His family and most of their friends were oil people (not a sin in my book, they made lots of money, just like we'd all like to do). He's probably as disturbed by this as I am (and as we'd all ought to be)

Rather than condemning the president for the fact he lacks the ability to control world wide oil prices, let's take a look at one thing he might be able to do to help us out a little.

As president, George Bush does have the ability to encourage congress to address the amount of federal taxes we pay on our diesel fuel. Further, he might be able to persuade the govenors of the individual states to discuss with their respective state's legislatures a reduction in their state fuel taxes.

Oil prices are a little screwy right now. Soon they'll settle down some, I think (and hope). In the meantime, those of us who drive for a living are absorbing a good more than our fair share of the pain.
If the federal and state governments would offer us a little temoprary relief through a reduction in the taxes we have to pay on diesel, the pain would be spread some. Everybody could absorb a little, and one group wouldn't be hurt so much.

That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Very well written and concise. You made excellent and valid points. Thank you.

Leo Bricker
OOIDA 677319
truck 4958
73's K5LDB
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 
G

guest

Guest
I would Have to Agree with that post 100%. The EPA is the one WHO IS TO BLAME
 

Marty

Veteran Expediter
I blame George Bush for the high price of gas along with every president since Ford. I blame our senators, congressmen and many others in government also.
After the oil embargo of the early 70's our government along with business should have put foward a huge effort to change our dependance on oil by developing alternative energy supplies.
The American governmet over the past 30 years has been ineffective,negligent, and irresponsible.
During G.W,Bush's presidential campaign in 2000 he blamed President Clinton for not putting into place an adequate energy policy. It took the Bush administration 6 years to bring about the establishment of an inadequate energy policy.
So yes, I do accuse "W" of sharing in the blame for high oil prices.
 

tec1959

Expert Expediter
Riverbob1,
I agree its always been for the last 30 or so years CHEAPER to BUY than BUILD,Thats the real reason we are in this fix today.Plus the EPA really don't want to help they just want their so called job security.

Riverbob1 thanks great POST.....


Just 2 cents worth please....
 

RobA

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
>
>
>Third on the list is Canada. Most Canadian folk are our
>friends, but they don't discount the oil they sell us.



Canadians are paying the same high price for refined products that you are in the States.
This morning; my local gas station was $1.26.3 per litre!
(3.78 litres to the gallon)
That is up over 20 cents since Tuesday night!
I paid 99.6 (which I thought excessive then).
There are no FRIENDS in business.
The oil we sell you goes through companies like ESSO ( you know that better as EXXON) and Sunoco. We are all in the same boat; the cheaper more accessable supplies of crude are being depleted. There is still lots of the stuff out there but it will be more expensive to extract and refine.
The damage caused by the hurricane was just the straw that broke the camel's back.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
I think "W" is somewhat limited in what he can do. It is not like he didn't make an effort. When he wanted to open existing wells and drill in Alaska, every enviromentalist group and tree hugger threw a fit. Now we see the results of listening to these radical groups.
The public has no one to blame but themselves.
It is amazing how that is overlooked.

Davekc
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Presidents and administrations come and go, but over the years environmental radicals have become increasingly entrenched in our federal and state governments at most all levels. This started with the Carter administration, and regulations and restrictions have accumulated to the point where it has become virtually impossible to build a new refinery in the US. NO new refineries have been built in the last 20-25 years in spite of the growing demands on fuel and energy. Unless and until there is a public outcry to rescind these restrictions and ignore the nonsense coming from these enviro-nazis, we will remain vulnerable to events like natural disasters or terrorist attacks on these facilities. Hopefully, the situation in the Gulf Coast will be a catalyst to allow more new refineries to be built and more domestic drilling for oil and natural gas. Everyone needs to contact their congressmen now, while the pressure is on them to take action.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
No, the president does not set the prices, and no, OPEC doesn't either. The bigwigs in New York dictates prices. I have to say that they would have less to fear from Bush than someone like Clinton. Washington does, however, does set the policies. And those policies are very friendly to the oil industry right now. The same people who aren't our friends were not our friends 10 years ago when fuel was 1/3 of what it is now. So saying Washington has no control over oil prices is like saying HMOs have no control over health care prices.

I'm usually never for communism of any type. However, things that are needed for our economy to thrive and our citizens to survive should never be allowed to be manipulated by corporate greed. Things such as oil, water, and electric should be controlled by the people, whereas it would be a non-profit market. When competition becomes collusion, like it has in this case with the oil companies, it's time for us to control the necessities.
 

Dreamer

Administrator Emeritus
Charter Member
Riverbob,

Great informative post, thank you.


Dreamer
Forums Administrator
Expediters Online
 

Loose_Cannon47

Expert Expediter
While the President, Congress, or whomever may not have the ability to control oil prices, they do have the ability to control the tax rate on the products we buy. Bio fuel is an excellent alternative. Why not reduce (or suspend) the tax on the components required to produce it, as well as the taxes on the companies willing to produce it? We (Americans) have the technology, the infrastructure, the base components, and the need to get off the oil standard. This country pays farmers mega-dollars to NOT plant crops. Why not pay them to plant crops that would encourage and benefit the bio fuel industry, and ultimately us, the end user? As mentioned, the oil producing countries are NOT our friends. Yet we continue to spend BILLIONS of American dollars in those countries for the crude that they supply, at grossly inflated prices. As has been said many times before, let THEM eat sand. I would have no great complaint about spending more on fuel, if I knew my dollars were staying in this country. Instead of making excuses against the use of bio fuels, we need to put a major effort into making it happen.

Loose
 

kwexpress

Veteran Expediter
KW Express
o/o till i die

maybe we should all just buy a bunch of pack mules and feed them beans
 

Dreamer

Administrator Emeritus
Charter Member
>KW Express
>o/o till i die
>
>maybe we should all just buy a bunch of pack mules and feed
>them beans


KW, for some reason that caught me just right at the wrong time.. LOL...you just reminded me why I should not drink Pepsi while readin posts.. .. dang that stuff burns coming out your nose, and it's hard to get off the keyboard!



Thanks, I needed that!



Dreamer
Forums Administrator
Expediters Online
 

hdl

Expert Expediter
>For reasons I'll never fully undersatand, drilling wells in
>America simply became too expensive and too much of a pain
>in the a--! I don't know if this was by design, or simple
>happenstance. The result is the same.

If it is by design it could be that Bush is supporting the continuance of that design. His support could be seen as a failure to attack laws that maintain the "design".

Another poster made a comment about environmentalists always getting their way. Well, it is the LAW that allows that. It is no accident that these people have standing in the courts where individual citizens trying to protect their property are told to take a hike. It's the LAW.

If an individual were to take a close look at these organizations and all their links, domestically and internationally, you might discover that their publicly stated purpose for existing is more of a front operation.

Fuel, in the hands of the masses, is go-go juice, in the hands of others it can be a weapon.

Bush supporters really need to take a closer look at Bush. He is not what you are lead to believe.

That much should have been clearly seen in the Supreme Court's Kelo decision. There was a good reason why he was speechless after that decision. After all, he made millions off the same thought process used by the corporate communist wing of the Court.
 

TheGoodGuy

Expert Expediter
When it takes hundreds of millions of dollars to elect a president, millions of dollars to elect a senator, and millions of dollars to elect a member of the house of representatives, are you folks actually deluded enough to think that our representatives are here to represent you.

Good lord folks wake up and smell the coffee.......

I just delivered a 1000 lbs of corrugated boxes to Diebold in Danville, VA. There was a skeleton force on hand to pack up the rest of their company, which is headed to China and France.

These people made ATM machines, they'll probably be flipping burgers next month.

Just can't wait for CAFTA to kick in. We might have to go to Columbia to buy a Whopper.... :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Riverbob1 is right on the money but I think that he left out a few things.

The first thing that comes to mind for me is that the high price of oil (all the different types of crude that is) actually came from the futures market, not the spot market. The trickle down effect caused the spot market to skyrocket. There is a big difference in the two and the news media helped promote the rising cost by forgetting to mention that simple but important fact.

The second thing is that fuel, diesel, gas and propane are not the main uses of oil, but plastics are. I know that a few will say that isn’t true, but our dependence on oil is driven by the plastics industry and a lot of the consumption is used in container production, i.e. bleach jugs, soda bottles etc… hey there really is a reason to recycle.

The third thing is that as much as everyone hates the EPA, they are mandated not to consider the impact of any of their rulings/policies/laws on our economy. Never mind that we actually live in a cleaner environment than our southern neighbors (Canada is pretty clean) and never mind that per capita density we pollute less than any other industrial nation (except of course Canada), we still end up with laws that hurt our economy and the real polluters (third world nations and Mexico) won’t do a thing to limit their pollution.

I can’t blame Bush for a lot but I can blame him for not using his executive powers to sidestep the refinery redtape and start building them. There is something called an executive order and I have not heard when one has actually been challenged in court or in congress.

That’s my 2¢
 

dukesadog

Expert Expediter
While I dont blame bush for higher fuel prices, he can be blamed for creating further instability in the mideast with the war in Iraq, as I recall it was an invasion not a defensive action.

Further causing instability which then screws up the markets and worries investors etc. While oil producing nations may not have been our friends they certainly are not now. Personally I dont care if they like us or not. I would rather see our farmers supported and have the US producing ethanol/bio-diesel etc or other renewable fuels.

Dukesadog
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
Dukes... going to war with Iraq had nothing to do with this. Remember, Iraq wasn't supposed to be producing oil for money (although the UN corruption threw that out the window). But as I remember, in 97-98 when fuel was less than a dollar, Iraq had sanctions on it then. So what do they have to do with high prices now? The Mid-east has control over production, but the ones who control prices are certain people in NYC. They speculate what the price should be, and walla... $70/barrel and rising.
 

Marty

Veteran Expediter
That's right. We didn't go to war over oil. We went to war to stop Saddam from using all his stockpiles of weapons of mass distruction on his neighbors.
 
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