Ford van electrical/alternator/starter problems

[guido4475]

Good morning ! I was on my way to get unloaded on Friday, when my dash volt gauge started to signs of dropping.I also have one of those cigarette lighter plug in igital readout volt gauge thingys as well, which has proven pretty accurate over the years.Anyway, got unloaded, (did not turn off van) got to the T/A in Brookeville,at which time Napa there was closed,only auto parts store in area, and it was starting to get dark.So I spent the night there at the T/A shop while they were charging my batteries (2) while I slept,etc.At the time when I turned off the van, it was showiing 6.2 volts, which I was thinking the alternator was going bad.I replaced 1 battery under the hood 2 months ago, the other, under the van, I dont know how old it is.Anyway, after giving the T/A 53.00 and driving 1 mile to Napa, to pay an overpriced $171.00 for a reman alternator,which was $98.00 back home at napa.I put it on there in the parking lot,Had to jump start it, then everything was fine for the first 25 miles of driving.Volt output was around 14.5, normal.Then it started dropping.By the time I got home, 150 miles later,It was back at 6.2 volts, but still running, which surprised me.I put my battery tester on the van with it running and it was showing 8 volts at the terminals.I pulled both batteries and the alternator and will have them tested today, but is there anything I am missing here? I was thinking of replacing the starter and it's solenoid as well, I dont want to chase this problem all week..lol.Maybe I just got a bad alternator, but I find it strange same problem re-surfaces again, same sympoms, so that is why I am thinking of other things as well.I appreciatte any advide, sorry for the book I have typed

 

[layoutshooter]

Are all of the grounds clean and solid? I use a 4 hour rule on electrical problems. If I can't find it after working for 4 hours I take it into a shop. I am just not that good.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

ok..think this out in steps....

Full charge 14.5

drive 25 miles and charge is dropping....

either bad alternator again..which is doubtful or

the charge is NOT making it to the battery...either the leads are bad or the ground is bad....as in flow thru...

did you check your positive cable from alt to battery?

 

[guido4475]

Going to check and clean grounds after I get done eating my sausage breakfast.I talked to my local Napa store And I gave him the part # for the alternator and they told me they used to sell that brand of alternators, but changed to a different supplier because of too many problems with the brand I had (rayloc).They have a brand new one there for 50.00 less than What I paid for the reman in pa.So this is why I am not saying the starter may be good.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Going to check and clean grounds after I get done eating my sausage breakfast.I talked to my local Napa store And I gave him the part # for the alternator and they told me they used to sell that brand of alternators, but changed to a different supplier because of too many problems with the brand I had (rayloc).They have a brand new one there for 50.00 less than What I paid for the reman in pa.So this is why I am not saying the starter may be good.

The one from PA should be under warranty? right? Hope it works out....you NEED to get back to work..on Monday..

 

[guido4475]

the store in madison, (napa)where i live, will only exchange it and not return my money, even though they sell the same brand, Rayloc.The one (store,napa)i deal with, in painesville,does not sell this brand, therefore, they will not exchange or return it.and yes, ken I know i need to back to work, and want to make this is fixed properly and right the first time as well, not go back out with a same problem re-surfacing.

 

[Angil82]

I think everyone has pretty much said everything that it could be. Obviously get the alternator checked since they are notorious for problems. This is the time of year that any built up on the terminals or the connectors themselves can make the batteries not get charged. Also, check the wiring to make sure that everything is connected correctly, and not allowing you to lose voltage somewhere. I have this problem this year all the time with my Ford Taurus. 9 times out of 10, it is the corrosion build up on the terminals, or the battery connectors themselves, and it just drains my battery, which is awful. Good Luck!

 

[davekc]

Could be a bad ground but sounds more like a voltage regulator/relay needs replaced. Especially if everything else checks out.

 

[blizzard2014]

Going to check and clean grounds after I get done eating my sausage breakfast.

Nothing gets between Guido and his breakfast!!

 

[OntarioVanMan]

the store in madison, (napa)where i live, will only exchange it and not return my money, even though they sell the same brand, Rayloc.The one (store,napa)i deal with, in painesville,does not sell this brand, therefore, they will not exchange or return it.and yes, ken I know i need to back to work, and want to make this is fixed properly and right the first time as well, not go back out with a same problem re-surfacing.

who needs a wife when ya got me eh? *LOL*

Nag, nag, nag...

 

[layoutshooter]

I had a ground problem once that was not easy to find. All the terminals had been cleaned and everything was tight. Still a bad ground. It turned out that there was corrosion up under the insulation that was the problem. When we peeled back the insulation the cable underneath was green, and brittle. New cable, no more problem.

 

[chefdennis]

I'd be looking at the battery under the truck...once started you are then running and driving on the alternator...so that sayes that the alternator is most likely ok. if the battery under the van has a bad cell it will messup the other battery if they are in sseris which I think they are.

And as others have said, look at the grounds also...but my bet is that it is a bad battery under the van....you drove too far to have a bad alternator, you could not have driven that far on just the batteries with a bad alternator....

 

[Steady Eddie]

Don't know if your van is a gas bunner or not. If it is, rednecks check their alt's by: after starting, diconnect your battery(s), if it still runs Alt is good. I think your main battery is the one under the van forward of you right rear tire. Cables here really get bad. If testing your batteries make sure they put a load test on them and not a volt metter.

Oh, and I'm so happy to see Goober made it over here.

 

[LDB]

It's very possible the reman alt is no good. Companies that do reman will have a batch of say 500 to do and will get a dozen or two bad franistans from a supplier. They reman the batch of 500 and know they'll have a certain number of bad ones but it's cheaper to take them back and reman them again than to check every component of every unit.

The above information is paraphrased from "Click and Clack", Tom and Ray Magliozzi, the car guys.

 

[greg334]

I would first follow the battery and alternator cables back to where they end up at. A lot of the times they will end up at the starter or a junction block and that is where the problem may be. I usually remove all the cable ends, check them to see their condition and clean them all and replace them back to where they came from with some dielectric grease.

Also check your negative cables from the battery(ies), the ground strap from the alternator to the engine, the strap from the engine to the chassis to make sure they are intact and the connectors are not bad.

Have the alternator tested anyways.

 

[guido4475]

I had Autozone check the alternator, it is fried. BOught a brand new one from MY Napa store that I have been dealing with for the past 28 years,a nd they once again said that particular vendor of alternators gave them nothing but problems, so they yanked all of the Raylock brand off of the shelves and found a bettter quality vendor,and their returns have dropped drastically.The rear battery, underneath, checked out amazingly pretty good, for being made in "08, replaced by Ryder.The 2 month old one from Autozone, I have on the charger now, and then will have it load tested.The new one will go underneath if it turns out to be good.Going back out there now to clean all connections and spray it all down with my trusty red stuff and put it all back together, hopfully, before it rains.And never, ever, work on a vehicle on an empty stomach..one less distraction..lol

 

[OntarioVanMan]

I had Autozone check the alternator, it is fried. BOught a brand new one from MY Napa store that I have been dealing with for the past 28 years,a nd they once again said that particular vendor of alternators gave them nothing but problems, so they yanked all of the Raylock brand off of the shelves and found a bettter quality vendor,and their returns have dropped drastically.The rear battery, underneath, checked out amazingly pretty good, for being made in "08, replaced by Ryder.The 2 month old one from Autozone, I have on the charger now, and then will have it load tested.The new one will go underneath if it turns out to be good.Going back out there now to clean all connections and spray it all down with my trusty red stuff and put it all back together, hopfully, before it rains.And never, ever, work on a vehicle on an empty stomach..one less distraction..lol

Empty? you just had breakfast!! Back to work...spaghetti bender...

 

[Skyline]

If you still have a problem with voltage let me now. I had a very similar and unique problem with one of my E350's that no mechanic could find, but I did with alot of luck. Hope your problem is solved though.

 

[layoutshooter]

If you still have a problem with voltage let me now. I had a very similar and unique problem with one of my E350's that no mechanic could find, but I did with alot of luck. Hope your problem is solved though.

Go ahead and post what you learned. Many others in here could benefit from it.

 

[Skyline]

Please excuse me as I will try to explain it as best as I can without knowing all the relevant technical lingo. On the firewall, just below the hood are two wires that come from the big electrical connectors(the one's that come through the wall behind the pedals) and run, if I remember correctly, to the alternator. These wires can be disconnected along the firewall by pulling the plug apart. The plug looks like something that can hold a fuse, but is only a connector. I pulled this plug and found no voltage on it. I compared it to another E350 and found that there was a voltage of about 3.5V that ran through it. When I unplugged it my charge was running at about 10v which would be fine for awhile untill the battery voltage dropped after an hour or two and then the gauges would go crazy at which time you had about 5-10 minutes of drive time left, before shutdown.

Anyway I checked all the wires looking for corrosion, shorts etc and found none. I then proceeded to unscrew the retainer screws for the big connection that hold the multiple wire plugs behind the pedals. Checked all the wires, found nothing, and plugged everything back in where they belong. I jump started the truck and bingo. I had, like in the other truck, about 3.5v of power running throught the wire by the firewall. Charge voltage was where it should be and my problem was solved. I can only assume that unplugging the big connectors fixed a bad connection and I never had a problem with this truck again. If it ever happens again I will do the same and maybe I will be lucky again. This truck only runs local now as it is getting on in age.

Apparently this 3.5 volts is a "overflow" that runs back out of the elctrical system and brings the charge voltage to 13.6V.

Thare is probably a better explanation for this, but it worked for me after I had two mechanics give up on it and endless hours I spent with it. (I should mention that I also switched alternators between the trucks and the 2nd mechanic did install a new alternator after I told him it was not the problem.