Then why not create a fleet owner credit rating system like Transcredit. They should pass a law that makes all fleet owners have to get a bond "just like freight brokers" and give them all a credit rating that can be checked before a driver signs up with said fleet owner. If a fleet owner does not pay the driver, a claim can then be filed against the bond!
Fleet Owners.... 2 Cents Worth
- Thread starter FREE TO FAIL
- Start date
If ratings are limited to folks who actually drove for an owner, it'd be a good resource with good info. [We can pretty much tell who is leaving pertinent facts out by now, lol.]
My concern is with people who have an agenda, and will recruit 'help' to reinforce their statements - easy to do with the anonymity of the internet.
My concern is with people who have an agenda, and will recruit 'help' to reinforce their statements - easy to do with the anonymity of the internet.
FREE TO FAIL
Seasoned Expediter
Wow I dont know about a credit rating system because its more then likely an owner will keep the note going on his trucks but fail to pay his driver, figuring another fish will come along anyway. What we really need is a mechanism to lien the truck for unpaid wages much like a mechanics lein. Lobby for that instead.
chefdennis
Veteran Expediter
All i can say is the owner i drive for is like a "Diaper on a babies butt".....
All i can say is the owner i drive for is like a "Diaper on a babies butt".....
Same here. Super guy!
All i can say is the owner i drive for is like a "Diaper on a babies butt".....
But is this needed?
chefdennis
Veteran Expediter
I had a "rash"..but it wasn't on the butt!!!
chefdennis
Veteran Expediter
I had a "rash"..but it wasn't on the butt!!!
Dakota
Veteran Expediter
I never said you don't run your business ethically, or anything bad about lawyers etc I believe someone else said that.
I just stated I want a written contract, and you have a point having a written contract and trying to enforce it are two different matters.
Addendum: Lugnut was the one that stated don't sign on with an attorney, not me
turritrans
Expert Expediter
If I was a driver a lawyer would be a great person to drive for. Who doesn't want an educated, business minded, ethical person to drive for? If there is an issue with the carrier a lawyer would be a perfect person to argue on your behalf with management in order to get results, after all lawyers debate for a living with facts!
As far as a contract is concerned all one would need is a document outlining compensation etc., after all like the man said most contracts are designed to protect the fleet owner from driver negligence. This document would be all that is needed in order for a judge to make a determination in the potential case.
Sounds to me like there are a lot of scourned drivers out there, rightfully so there are a lot of deadbeat fleetowners. Owning trucks myself and placing drivers with my fleetowners I can assure you the smart owners will take care of their drivers in order to avoid high turnover especially if the drivers you have are top notch, safe, and good earners!
As far as a fleetowner rating system I don't that would be a useful tool. Best thing to do is like others said do some research, talk to existing drivers, call the carrier, interview the fleetowner to see if he/she would be a good fit for you..RESEARCH is the key!
As far as a contract is concerned all one would need is a document outlining compensation etc., after all like the man said most contracts are designed to protect the fleet owner from driver negligence. This document would be all that is needed in order for a judge to make a determination in the potential case.
Sounds to me like there are a lot of scourned drivers out there, rightfully so there are a lot of deadbeat fleetowners. Owning trucks myself and placing drivers with my fleetowners I can assure you the smart owners will take care of their drivers in order to avoid high turnover especially if the drivers you have are top notch, safe, and good earners!
As far as a fleetowner rating system I don't that would be a useful tool. Best thing to do is like others said do some research, talk to existing drivers, call the carrier, interview the fleetowner to see if he/she would be a good fit for you..RESEARCH is the key!
Yesteryear
Expert Expediter
Exactly, and the next issue is when a driver is willing to pay the lawyer to take it to court, you can't find a lawyer to take it because there is not enough money in it for the lawyer. lol It is a win win for the dishonest fleet owner and a no win for the driver.
Exactly, and the next issue is when a driver is willing to pay the lawyer to take it to court, you can't find a lawyer to take it because there is not enough money in it for the lawyer. lol It is a win win for the dishonest fleet owner and a no win for the driver.
Not allllways, Yesteryear [good to see you back, BTW]. The only owner I drove for who wasn't keeping up with payroll [not entirely his fault, because he got sick, but I have bills to pay too] found the contract he wrote worked in my favor, lol. I told him I was leaving the truck [clean, with keys at fuel desk] at a truckstop 200 miles from his home. He blustered about it until I reminded him the contract specified the truck be left where I'd picked it up [at my own expense, of course], which was 850 miles from his home. I said I was willing to follow the contract, but he decided the truckstop was just fine.
As ATeam pointed out, not all owners are dishonest - sometimes it's just more than they can afford, [with home & health issues added] and it's tough for everyone.
Its a sad state of affairs when a mans word and a hand shake is not enough..I have operated that way for a long time, its true I have been taken advantage of a couple of times, but they have to live with being the pond scum and it eventually catchs up with them.
moose
Veteran Expediter
Why on earth dose the drivers needs to wait until the Owner gets paid by the carrier, before they get's paid ?
o'h yes - because it is spelled they don't in THE GOT DERN CONTRACT !
once the drivers completed their duty,(paperwork's included), it is the owner responsibility to provide the credit line and cash reserve to support the business .
the contract is not(only) about collecting, it is(also) about spelling the working CONTRACTED relationships and holding ones accountable without sinking the ship .
1 . PAY ME ,
if you wish to know if you get paid correctly and timely by the owner, please refer to the preprovided contract, and read the terms in which you are supposed to get paid.
the terms YOU have agreed to and signed on BEFORE you took possessions of the owner's 200,000$ truck.
hands shakes are for trading diamonds.
next .
? - a ? for the OP :
this is the 1st time i read here about the drivers cash advanced being related in any way to the advanced allowed by the carrier . interesting idea .is this something carrier specific ? how dose it work ?
o'h yes - because it is spelled they don't in THE GOT DERN CONTRACT !
once the drivers completed their duty,(paperwork's included), it is the owner responsibility to provide the credit line and cash reserve to support the business .
the contract is not(only) about collecting, it is(also) about spelling the working CONTRACTED relationships and holding ones accountable without sinking the ship .
1 . PAY ME ,
if you wish to know if you get paid correctly and timely by the owner, please refer to the preprovided contract, and read the terms in which you are supposed to get paid.
the terms YOU have agreed to and signed on BEFORE you took possessions of the owner's 200,000$ truck.
hands shakes are for trading diamonds.
next .
? - a ? for the OP :
this is the 1st time i read here about the drivers cash advanced being related in any way to the advanced allowed by the carrier . interesting idea .is this something carrier specific ? how dose it work ?
LisaLouHoo
Expert Expediter
When Jeffman had his small fleet, he made sure he had money in reserve to pay his drivers immediately. Good thing too, for one of his long term carriers all of a sudden took 120 days to get their pay caught up. The drivers never went without getting paid. Jeff took on that burden.
"Bruises fade and bones will mend-but a psyche can be ruined FOREVER" : LisaLouHoo, c. 2008
"Bruises fade and bones will mend-but a psyche can be ruined FOREVER" : LisaLouHoo, c. 2008
Good for him Lisa!! How many times people have posted about not getting paid because a fleet owners in not getting paid or has a streak of breakdowns...too bad I say...NO excuse...a good fleet owner will have cash reserves and/or a line of credit to tap into if needed....
FREE TO FAIL
Seasoned Expediter
Replying to why a driver gets the balance of his pay paid to him at the time of settlement by the carrier. 3 reasons come to mind.
1. At our carrier the driver is allowed to advance 50 percent of the gross of the load at pickup which effectively means the driver receives 80 percent of his money prior to even completing the load. Obviously this is a huge advantage to the driver. The advance is charged against the load at the time it settles for payment with the carrier. Now as an accounting issue I receive the worksheet on the load and can offset the advance against the load pay to reconcile what is due to the driver. I allow my drivers choose their loads and take the advances. I have no knowledge as to what the driver chooses to do. Ultimately I have no idea what the load pay is, advances taken or what is actually owed to the driver. Once i receive the settlement statement I can see what the drivers have done and what the load actually pays. Easy enough to resolve any inconsistancies. I do not micromanage my drivers what they choose to do is their business.
2. From a legal perspective, I beleive that reconciling a drivers pay by load when paid is further proof to the IRS that their exista a true sub-contractor relationship. By not telling them what to do or where to go or wether to advance a load, and simply reconciling the load when paid, I am illustrating that the subcontractor has full authority to do what they choose. When you pay a driver despite the fact that you have not been paid it looks more like an employee/employer relationship. The risk of loss is fully on the owner. I beieve that this may look like a peice work employment to the IRS.
3. From a practical matter i have no idea what my driver is doing, If i get a call saying they took load x that pays 1000.00 and actually the load only paid 900.00 you honestly expect me to pay what the driver stated not what was actually paid prior to settlement? If the driver made an error with the paperwork and the load doesnt get paid for that week I am required to pay him his balance regardless? Having very little control over my drivers it is up to them as professionals to make sure their paperwork is correct and submit it accordingly, then they get their balance. Simple enough as a practical matter my carrier is exceptional about payment and our loads settle within 3 to 7 days depending on submission.
The gnats that buzz around and talk about cashflow and owner responsibility are mistaken, my drivers are professionals and understand that moving the load and submitting their paperwork to the carrier is part of their job to receive the balance due to them. I am not here to chase around my drivers to do their paperwork, they have a vested interest is completing, submitting and insuring that the paperwork is done correctly.
1. At our carrier the driver is allowed to advance 50 percent of the gross of the load at pickup which effectively means the driver receives 80 percent of his money prior to even completing the load. Obviously this is a huge advantage to the driver. The advance is charged against the load at the time it settles for payment with the carrier. Now as an accounting issue I receive the worksheet on the load and can offset the advance against the load pay to reconcile what is due to the driver. I allow my drivers choose their loads and take the advances. I have no knowledge as to what the driver chooses to do. Ultimately I have no idea what the load pay is, advances taken or what is actually owed to the driver. Once i receive the settlement statement I can see what the drivers have done and what the load actually pays. Easy enough to resolve any inconsistancies. I do not micromanage my drivers what they choose to do is their business.
2. From a legal perspective, I beleive that reconciling a drivers pay by load when paid is further proof to the IRS that their exista a true sub-contractor relationship. By not telling them what to do or where to go or wether to advance a load, and simply reconciling the load when paid, I am illustrating that the subcontractor has full authority to do what they choose. When you pay a driver despite the fact that you have not been paid it looks more like an employee/employer relationship. The risk of loss is fully on the owner. I beieve that this may look like a peice work employment to the IRS.
3. From a practical matter i have no idea what my driver is doing, If i get a call saying they took load x that pays 1000.00 and actually the load only paid 900.00 you honestly expect me to pay what the driver stated not what was actually paid prior to settlement? If the driver made an error with the paperwork and the load doesnt get paid for that week I am required to pay him his balance regardless? Having very little control over my drivers it is up to them as professionals to make sure their paperwork is correct and submit it accordingly, then they get their balance. Simple enough as a practical matter my carrier is exceptional about payment and our loads settle within 3 to 7 days depending on submission.
The gnats that buzz around and talk about cashflow and owner responsibility are mistaken, my drivers are professionals and understand that moving the load and submitting their paperwork to the carrier is part of their job to receive the balance due to them. I am not here to chase around my drivers to do their paperwork, they have a vested interest is completing, submitting and insuring that the paperwork is done correctly.
moose
Veteran Expediter
Thanks for clearing .
very interesting way to run a business. sure enough there's more then one way to run a successful fleet.
i do just have one comment.
the IRS will never questions the contractor/employee statue.
it is the former drivers that needs to be protected from.
when years pass, and they are up to SSC collecting ,if they did not deduct for the time running the truck, they WILL have a problem to collect . same goe's for medicare, Unemployment's, Ext.
R U protected ?
very interesting way to run a business. sure enough there's more then one way to run a successful fleet.
i do just have one comment.
the IRS will never questions the contractor/employee statue.
it is the former drivers that needs to be protected from.
when years pass, and they are up to SSC collecting ,if they did not deduct for the time running the truck, they WILL have a problem to collect . same goe's for medicare, Unemployment's, Ext.
R U protected ?
FREE TO FAIL
Seasoned Expediter
Moose for your information:
"Consequences of Treating an Employee as an Independent Contractor
If you classify an employee as an independent contractor and you have no reasonable basis for doing so, you may be held liable for employment taxes for that worker (the relief provisions, discussed below, will not apply). See Internal Revenue Code section 3509 for more information."
additionally how a driver is paid is relevent information,
"The ability to realize a profit or incur a loss is probably the strongest evidence that a worker controls the business aspects of services rendered. The facts already considered --significant investment, unreimbursed expenses, making services available, and method of payment --are all relevant in this regard.
As part of this review, you should also consider whether the worker is free to make business decisions which affect the worker’s profit or loss. If the worker is making decisions which affect his or her bottom line, the worker likely has the ability to realize profit or loss. Examples include decisions regarding the types and quantities of inventory to acquire, the type and amount of monetary or capital investment, and whether to purchase or lease premises or equipment. Remember that employees can also make these decisions, but they do not usually affect the employee’s bottom line."
But most importantly and related to an existance of a contract:
"A contractual designation, in and of itself, is not sufficient evidence for determining worker status. The facts and circumstances under which a worker performs services are determinative of the worker’s status. Treas. Reg. section 31.3121(d)-1(a)(3) provides that the designation or description of the parties is immaterial. This means that the substance of the relationship, not the label, governs the worker’s status. The contract may, however, be relevant in ascertaining methods of compensation, expenses that will be incurred, and the rights and obligations of each party with respect to how work is to be performed."
I recent Fed Ex case comes to mind:
"Consequences of Treating an Employee as an Independent Contractor
If you classify an employee as an independent contractor and you have no reasonable basis for doing so, you may be held liable for employment taxes for that worker (the relief provisions, discussed below, will not apply). See Internal Revenue Code section 3509 for more information."
additionally how a driver is paid is relevent information,
"The ability to realize a profit or incur a loss is probably the strongest evidence that a worker controls the business aspects of services rendered. The facts already considered --significant investment, unreimbursed expenses, making services available, and method of payment --are all relevant in this regard.
As part of this review, you should also consider whether the worker is free to make business decisions which affect the worker’s profit or loss. If the worker is making decisions which affect his or her bottom line, the worker likely has the ability to realize profit or loss. Examples include decisions regarding the types and quantities of inventory to acquire, the type and amount of monetary or capital investment, and whether to purchase or lease premises or equipment. Remember that employees can also make these decisions, but they do not usually affect the employee’s bottom line."
But most importantly and related to an existance of a contract:
"A contractual designation, in and of itself, is not sufficient evidence for determining worker status. The facts and circumstances under which a worker performs services are determinative of the worker’s status. Treas. Reg. section 31.3121(d)-1(a)(3) provides that the designation or description of the parties is immaterial. This means that the substance of the relationship, not the label, governs the worker’s status. The contract may, however, be relevant in ascertaining methods of compensation, expenses that will be incurred, and the rights and obligations of each party with respect to how work is to be performed."
I recent Fed Ex case comes to mind: