Fleet Owner Reviews and Ratings Service

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
It happened again. Yet another case has developed where a married couple team, new to expediting, signed up with a fleet owner without knowing the experiences of previous drivers who have been burned by him.

Now burned themselves -- perhaps even financially destroyed -- the drivers are in a bad way, financially and emotionally. But because people are embarrassed and/or afraid to openly speak and name names, the fleet owner remains free to re-offend with the next victim that answers his ad.

With the circumstances publicly posted and the carrier named, and with the drivers making complaints and pleas for help to the carrier, the carrier to whom the fleet owner leases his trucks cannot not know this is going on; yet the carrier washes its hands of all responsibility.

It's not just this carrier. It seems to be most of them, if not all. The carriers' purpose is to minimize their liability in cases like this. They calculate that the best way to do that is to turn a blind eye to the fleet owner's evil practices and a cold shoulder to the drivers' pain, thereby allowing the fleet owner to not only continue, but to do so under the cloak of the carrier's good name.

It is indeed strange how things work out when, because of the influence of the legal department, carrier employees check their ethics and human compassion at the door when they go to work each day. They take intentional action to ignore or otherwise brush off the harmed drivers, and focus instead on minimizing the carrier's liability.

"Do the right thing" gives way to "Do the right thing only for the company that pays you, no matter how morally repugnant and cold the carrier's priorities may be."

What, if anything, can be done to stop predator fleet owners?

Civil action taken against the fleet owners by the drivers is an option, but not really. Because the drivers are financially weak the legal-action route is rarely pursued. Small claims action is more viable but it too is rarely pursued because the drivers lack the skill and/or desire to fight. Predator fleet owners know and use that fact to their advantage.

With the carriers choosing to do only what is right for them and taking positions that actually help the predator fleet owners recruit new victims and lure them in, little help can be expected from the carriers. And with people afraid to speak up and name names, and legal action by victim drivers not commonly pursued; can anything be done to stop predator fleet owners?

Maybe so.

I had a new thought today and offer it for consideration and discussion in the Open Forum.

What if EO or another entity or person created a fleet owner reviews and ratings service similar to Angie's List?

Please take a thoughtful look at that site. People there have no problem naming names and sharing their circumstances. If Angie can name names and publish reviews of "roofers, plumbers, house cleaners, dentists and more!" could the same model be used to review and rate fleet owners too?

The fleet owner universe is microscopic compared to Angie's user base so a fleet owner reviews and ratings site would not have to be anywhere near as involved. Yes, there is a lot to think about, but in general, might it work?
 
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MissKat

Expert Expediter
Insightful Phil and could be sooo valuable to newbies and folks wanting to make a change!

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Dakota

Veteran Expediter
What about making this a sticky?
with a legal disclaimer that EO/On Time Media is no way endorses or supports statements within.
 

Mike99

Veteran Expediter
''What if EO or another entity or person created a fleet owner reviews and ratings service similar to Angie's List?''

Why just for fleet owners and not for drivers? Why the drivers not read the contract? It is simple. We pay x amount per mile and the date when we pay. I don;t understand how a fleet owner can burn down a decent driver. If I hire a driver my goal is to keep the driver as long as I can . The fleet owner who are bad with his drivers are bad with his own business first.
After the first paycheck the driver should take out the contract, calculate his miles and make the math . If is something wrong he can call the fleet owner and see what went wrong. If he is unsatisfied he can take the truck back and leave. But this is the worst case scenario. If two weeks of work burn him down I think that the driver was burned down way before he start driving. When I put a driver in one of my vans I allways let him alone 20 minutes with the contract to read it carefully . After I ask him if he understand what he just read. I tell him that if he has future questions he can call me anytime. If he don't like the job he can bring the van back to me anytime ,we shake hands and I take him to the first Grayhound station. It is so simple . I hate drama .I don't know the situation with the big fleet owners.I just a small fleet owner.
 
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scottm4211

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I'd take little or no stock in what is posted on an Internet ratings service. For every negative review, any savvy business owner could post 10 positives. Just look at hotel reviews on tripadvisor.
Then of course you're taking business advice from strangers...

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OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
This is a business..and some research MUST be done...even if it involves some legwork.....ask around truckstops, go to the carriers yard where trucks are known to be.....ask about the future owner....like ...ever hear of this guy? or company?

Don't EVER believe a recruiter...
 

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
I'd take little or no stock in what is posted on an Internet ratings service. For every negative review, any savvy business owner could post 10 positives. Just look at hotel reviews on tripadvisor.
Then of course you're taking business advice from strangers...

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Agreed - and would you get both sides of the story from the one person writing the review? :rolleyes:
 

ChanceMaster

Expert Expediter
I'd take little or no stock in what is posted on an Internet ratings service. For every negative review, any savvy business owner could post 10 positives. Just look at hotel reviews on tripadvisor.
Then of course you're taking business advice from strangers...

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totally agree !! I sometimes read those hotel reviews out loud to my co-driver and laugh ! the same hotel is the taj mahal to one person, and to the next reviewer its lower than a government subsidized housing project.

Here is a forum that is more geared (pun intended) to T/T drivers, and my link goes to a section where drivers discuss their likes and dislikes of particular trucking company's :

Trucking Company DAC Reports - Truckers Trucking Forum | Largest CDL Truck Driver Message Board
 
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greg334

Veteran Expediter
This is a business..and some research MUST be done...

BUT see OVM, the problem is this isn't treated as a business and for those who are either desperate to make money to pay the bills or want to jump into this quagmire of a profession, they fail themselves by not even considering the Due Diligence needed and the negitive impact of this business can have with their lives.

I have said it over and over again (and not many here seem to give me credit for it) that in this business you have to have the right tools to protect yourself and one of those tools is proper legal advice that is based on your situation. I also don't advocate jumping into a truck that someone else owns unless they are willing to take the steps to protect themselves, like a contract and like getting someone to read the contract. WITH something like 10,000 billion posts on this subject with these types of issues popping up all the time, I can't understand how someone could miss that important advice. AND I got to tell you that the OP is one who has had that exact advice right from the start which has led him to his "success".

BUT honestly, I can't see even considering a rating or review system with the easy entry into the world of trucking - it is not like a contractor who is coming to your house to do some plumbing work. It is too subjective or is that objective or maybe it is too relative to the person who makes the complaint and may be meaningless with some liable involved. It would become a hodgepodge of a website with the same issues that plague other rating sites - some of them are actually a joke.

Maybe it is better to keep stressing the Due Diligence that has to be done and the need to treat this like a business and only a business. Maybe explaining if you can't pay the $500 to get someone to advise you on legal issue, maybe this isn't the game for you.

Maybe there are a few solutions;

first one that comes to mind is what I suggested in another thread - the FMCSA requires a bond for any fleet owner who has 1099s as drivers. The bond can be used to pay those who have not been paid which is just like a broker - maybe $10k per truck? Maybe with all these people who are "financially destroyed" can all get a hold of their representatives and see if there is a way to get congress to push for it.

the second one that comes to mind is a very simple thing to do - no sub-contractors allowed. Everyone who is driving for an owner is now an employee. Personally I would like to see this because this allows the owner to do more than the bs that many do do. :D

The last thing that comes to mind is carriers should not allow fleet owners, especially van fleet owners unless they can prove their solvency (**but that goes back to my first point). Either way, the carrier doesn't care, should not get involved and has no real interest in sticking their nose into the business of the fleet owner.

The last thing I got to say is too many people just don't want to learn. I have tried to help others with the right way to get into this business and a few ignored the advice I have given them and did what they heard was the right way - only to get really burned by the owner/carrier.

NOW with that said, is this leading up to another wonderful website?
 

Dakota

Veteran Expediter
This is a business..and some research MUST be done...even if it involves some legwork.....ask around truckstops, go to the carriers yard where trucks are known to be.....ask about the future owner....like ...ever hear of this guy? or company?

Don't EVER believe a recruiter...

Are the recruiters lips moving? Well there ya go...

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Humble2drive

Expert Expediter
That is an idea that could be very helpful. It would be a positive move to expose the egregious acts that a few Fleet Owners are committing. It would also be an excellent tool for new and existing drivers to use as a screen to help direct them away from the problem owners and toward the more reputable owners.

Problem 1: A very small audience. Expediting is a small fraction of the overall trucking industry. Drivers seeking Fleet Owners are a fraction of the Expediting industry. Drivers who are seeking fleet owners and actually spend time online researching is even a smaller percentage.

Problem 2: Unreliable information. This one has a way of working itself out as multiple complaints come to light and ultimately it is up to the user to be the jury.

In order for this to be useful as a realistic tool that expedite drivers could find and utilize it would need to be affiliated with EO in some manner. It just does not seem like it would be a productive endeavor for any individual to set up and maintain.

It may be unnecessary to reinvent the wheel for this purpose when we can simply hitch a ride with an established site like ripoffreports.com.
It would be essential for EO to participate in order to make these reports findable but they would not have to assume any liability or conflict of interest to do so.

There could be a thread entitled: "Ripoffs and Scams"

The complaint would not be posted there but the complainant could post a reference to the "ripoffreport" that they posted.

Example: My wife and I have posted our experience on ripoffreports.com under the title Expedite Solutions.

In other words, ripoffreport.com is already there and can serve our purpose; however, there just needs to be a way for drivers to find and access the information.

That is one suggestion; however, as others have stated: This opportunity should be approached as a business and an individual should be willing to perform due diligence in their research.
 

charlies1gal

Seasoned Expediter
This advice is ok for T\T Drivers, but it doesn't quite work the same for Straight Trucks & Cargo\Sprinter Vans. Some of the Fleet owners for those either don't honor or perhaps aren't even botherin to even read their own contracts, because I have had to read it to them to let them know that I was honoring terms stated in the contract while they weren't & since they could or would not honor their own contract, I would not work with them, because Trucking can be stressfull enough without playing games & constantly being lied to. The carrier knows how these rougue Fleet owners are acting, but unless you come right out point blank BEFORE you sign on with them, they WILL NOT get involved & will only tell you they knew all along after you fire the fleet owner. This is an every day practice at the Carrier I work with & have been with since 2006.
 

ts675

Seasoned Expediter
Ripoff report is already established and they have a trucking section already. Just fyi

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ts675

Seasoned Expediter
Sorry humble I did not see your post about topography before I posted. Didn't mean to duplicate info that's already there

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moose

Veteran Expediter
actually a joke.
...

first one that comes to mind is what I suggested in another thread - the FMCSA requires a bond for any fleet owner who has 1099s as drivers. The bond can be used to pay those who have not been paid which is just like a broker - maybe $10k per truck? Maybe with all these people who are "financially destroyed" can all get a hold of their representatives and see if there is a way to get congress to push for it.

the second one that comes to mind is a very simple thing to do - no sub-contractors allowed. Everyone who is driving for an owner is now an employee. Personally I would ... :D


Well, no news here, like always you are looking for the Gov. to regulate the crap out of our business, for the simple rezone that we needs them to protect ourselves from our own negligent.
i don't feel bad all the way for a burned out drivers, the only rezone bad FO can continuously pray on drivers, is because there's pray to be harvests, drivers entering this BUSINESS should know better to pre-protect themselves.
this industry is not a financial last resort, it's a business that needs to be invested in.

oh,here's a thought "
"deer FO, we would like to drive your truck. can we please get the phone #'s of the last team, or any current one ? "

& a warm welcome's back Phil, was it 2 weeks already? time's fly... :)
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Well, no news here, like always you are looking for the Gov. to regulate the crap out of our business, for the simple rezone that we needs them to protect ourselves from our own negligent.

Well I don't like the government regulating anything, let alone what we do but you said it - we needs them to protect ourselves from our own neglect - how many times have drivers actually gotten together and protested something?

this industry is not a financial last resort, it's a business that needs to be invested in.

Invested how?
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
The "angie's list concept" is probably not applicable here. Just not enough volume or interest to bring in a third party for investigations and verification which is what they do. I think it is BPA which is a auditing firm that is used for this purpose. Part of the reason there is a fee. Expediting just simply doesn't have enough volume to support it. Rip-off .com is probably a better vehicle.
As for more government regulation, again won't happen. Just isn't the volume there to get the needed attention. Just a reality. Even if it did come to fruition, owners would simply convert to structured vehicle leases.
Unfortunately, there are more bad drivers than fleet owners.
Why? Drivers outnumber owners by a huge margin. Just simple math but a reality that can't be ignored either.
Some owners can't manage, and some drivers are merely steering wheel holders.
As we have seen year after year here on EO, the truth in many of these disputes is somewhere in the middle. There is both good and bad in everything.
But like many good fleet owners, I have no interest in being "thrown under the bus" because of a few bad ones.
As mentioned many times, reputation is the successful key.
At the end of the day, like any business, it is personal responsibility to educate and pursue the people that know their business. And yes, it isn't the people that run a weekly or daily ad looking for people.
 

osumike33

Seasoned Expediter
But like many good fleet owners, I have no interest in being "thrown under the bus" because of a few bad ones.
As mentioned many times, reputation is the successful key.
At the end of the day, like any business, it is personal responsibility to educate and pursue the people that know their business. And yes, it isn't the people that run a weekly or daily ad looking for people.

As someone just getting (back) into this, it seems to me that this business is not unlike most others - there are good people, bad people, greedy people and naive ones. The guy driving my first truck has already said he's never leaving, I'm stuck with him, which is fine by me. So, hopefully the good people find each other and let the others - on both sides - try to screw each other so badly that they all end up leaving the business (though I know that will never happen). The one kind of surprising thing to me that I've found out is that rates are basically the same as they were 15-20 years ago...or less, whereas everything else is so much more expensive. That one needs some 'splainen.
 

mcavoy33

Seasoned Expediter
What if EO or another entity or person created a fleet owner reviews and ratings service similar to Angie's List?

Why not just use Angie's List and direct people on here to use it as another research tool? If it was included in the relevant sticky's, we could simply tell people to search Angie's List as well.

I honestly don't get why people are scared of liability. Some poor fleet owner isn't going to have money to break the anonymous seal of the internet. Its not cheap to hire a lawyer to get a court order to have a website turn over my IP address. An IP address that would cost another arm & leg to prove it was me in a court of law.

If I worked for a shady company, I'd have no problem saying it publicly. I'd like them try to waste money on trying to prove what I said in a court of law.
 
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