FECC Rumor Mill

redytrk

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Took a transfer load from a driver the other night. He just had a new C-Link installed,and was told something interesting.

According to this guy, quoting this guy,we will be getting new C-Links for paperless logging. The units will also have a scanner,and voice capability.

Anyone else heard of this?
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Yep, I saw couple of them already - in testing phase.

I will say this and have to FedEx, why did they select people who have no clue how to use a computer to create feedback?

I mean I ran into one person who had a very hard time using it and was more or less angry at the unit for it's complexity.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
It makes sense to have the most tech savvy and the ones that aren't, test a system. It shouldn't take long to determine a systems weakness.
What may be a easy process for one, may be a difficult task for another.










Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator
 

FAMILYEXPDT

Seasoned Expediter
I would definately put the least tech savvy people to beta test something....if they can use anytone can. We personally LOVE the Omnivision by Qualcomm....voice, logging, solitaire :p The new logging with line bar graphs and all is very cool. I think you all will like it very much if anything like what we have.



-charlotte
 

arkjarhead

Veteran Expediter
i remember many times wishing my qc had games on it, but the last company i drove for still had the 4 line monitors. why we had qc i don't know. there were no pre programmed messages. i only recieved two types of messages. 1 was comcheck # 123456 and 2 was please call dispatch for your load info.
 

ConfusedMuse

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Totally awesome.... Now when I get yanked in at the coops in New Mexico, how prey tell do I show my 7 previous days logs.... ah yes the extremely long cord long because it dangles most of the time out of the window.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
>Totally awesome.... Now when I get yanked in at the coops in
>New Mexico, how prey tell do I show my 7 previous days
>logs.... ah yes the extremely long cord long because it
>dangles most of the time out of the window.

This actually brings up two points that I think are missed when they talk about electronic logging - one is record keeping (meaning accessibility to the records at all times) and the other is the validity of the results from the unit.

For many these two issues are not important but for me it forces me to see a gaping hole in any electronic logging system where data can be altered or even lost (in the case of laptop software). I don't trust my career to a software developer or service provider just because a carrier accepts their word that this system is a good system - if I don't have access to my information it is not a good system period. Carriers don't have a clue what it takes to create a system that is good enough to be trusted.

The software solutions for Laptops and such are questionable and for a couple I have messed with I have altered data bypassing all the HOS safeguards from the data and the software didn't catch it - bad thing to allow.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Greg makes a good point. The ability to access our log book data forever is important. We use our log books at tax time to tabulate per diem deductions. In a tax audit, we would use log books to justify the deduction. The same applies for days spent in Canada (different per diem rate).

Every now and then, the question comes up, "Where were we on (date)?" Our log books provide the answer. That question last rose when odd charges started showing up on our credit card statements, charged by merchants in places we were not sure we had been at the time the charges were made. Our log books helped us know our credit card number had been stolen and quickly move to protect ourselves.

I belive well-kept log books also make it easier on us at scale stops. Having seen all types of log books, officers can tell at a glance when they are dealing with professionals.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
If you are on a paperless system, the carrier can provide the information to you for the whole year by date. They keep that information in case of a DOT audit.
You could put it on a disk and keep it until whenever.
I believe they keep it for three years, but I am not sure. I would have to think at a bare minumum, it would be by the DOT audit requirement.
Maybe longer? But a good question to ask.









Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Dave,
To expand on this a bit

One of the issues I have is that the person who is driving the vehicle is totally and completely responsible for their own logs – this is one gap. There are a lot of issues with just maintaining the data in a safe and accessible manner with many carriers, some can’t pull basic financial info out of their systems without an act of congress, let alone manage to provide records on demand for the drivers/owners. I get frustrated with some who tell me something can’t be done because they are not trained or understand the systems they use.

The second gap is there are several audits that we have to deal with, the Fed Dot is one – a state audit is another and the IRS is a third. In my case, because my state is trying to capture every penny, I have gotten a notice for an audit from the MPSC, not happy about it but my logs are only one small part of the audit. The point is that for some in a hostile relationship (for what ever reason), the carrier can decide not to provide anything – no legal obligation to do so because logs are not their responsibility.

The third gap is portability, somewhat technical and something that several departments on the federal level have been grappling with for a while – how does one get the data from a disk, CD or electronic file in a format that is acceptable to their auditors or LEA? Practically speaking it is not as easy as just getting a disk, CD or electronic file and printing it – there may be a need to use the data in electronic form for forensic reasons due to an accident or something else. I know one question that can be brought up is the validity of the data itself, just because it comes from the carrier, there is no chain of custody or that the data has not been tampered with.

Another underlying issue is that we will become dependent on electronic logging, the companies will sell the software and services to the carriers and when the time comes to up with data standards and portability, the DOT may not be sympathetic to the driver – remember this is the DOT we are talking about.

This area of IT is/was my specialty long before disaster recovery/business continuity and I know from my Pharma experience I can sit here and point out a lot of problems with these systems.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Gregg,
You bring up some very good points. Alot of your questions or concerns were addressed when they first tested the paperless log system. The first to test it as a large carrier was Werner Enterprises.
They do make the information readily available and downloadable in several formats. That was a component that had to be addressed by DOT and FMCSA.
Since they are considered federal documents, they by law have to be provided. The only one that I am somewhat educated on is QC.
The carrier has the information as well as QC which backs up the collected data. QC in turn uses a third party for data collection in addition to their own. That is somewhat dated information so I don't know if they have changed it.
I do know it was challenged several times legally, and there wasn't any issues.

With regards to pay issues, that may be a different story. That would seem more of a carrier related issue. Speaking just for Panther, all of it is generated and readily viewable via the internet. They store all of it, and I can download essentially every piece of information that I need, or have a file sent to me.
Smaller carriers may have a bigger issue with that compared to the larger ones.
As long as I would have access to logs or any other information, I don't see a problem. Depending on the application, most are done with excel or PDF. Those are very common and easily downlable to a disk or file. In the event that changes for logs, they would have to have the approval of DOT and FMSCA as they have done in the past.
It is interesting as the wave is certainly going to migrate towards this technology.
The good news is on the users end, in that they have made it pretty easy and user friendly.








Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Dave,
Thanks for the info.

I guess the thing I am looking for is the regulation that specifically talks about electronic log books and the removal of responsibility of the driver to the carrier. I read the cases in court but no where did I find the mention of the validation of the systems as per other fed regs or the fact that there is no mandated standards - all of these point to problems I mentioned and knowing the tech end of things, I just don't have the confidence in a carrier or the feds to make the decisions that would safe guard the drivers. But again I am talking about Qualcomm and a couple other companies that provide the service - not the laptop programs.

Oh speaking about paperless logging and the use of GPS as part of the system, I read somewhere how people are getting by this, pretty interesting.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Probably will take some looking to find the specific information and guidelines. I would imagine there is quite a bit of information as that was a pilot program that went for I believe a year before they were granted permission to do their whole fleet.
It would be possible to block the signal so it couldn't track. Good question as to how they address that if it was in error.










Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Yea, I read the follow up to the pilot program, the surveys they took a few years ago and the proposed rule changes but there are too many gaps I can see. I know that the Fed's are not the one's pushing this but the companies. This means that they can do more shifting the blame to the drivers in my eyes by not needing to audit the drivers.

Maybe I am being the harda** IT person and see the negatives over the positives? sorry my training is showing.

I do see another negative that I don't really like, the driver not understanding how to log or how to figure out what is permitted and what is not. Putting a system into the truck that does this for a driver will eliminate one more aspect of thinking. But outside of the positive of not having to deal with putting a log together, what are the others?
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Yes that is a good idea but here is the problem when a company has records by electronic log and they do not match your paper log, which one is acceptable?
 
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