This is a great price for this unit!
Expeditors OnLine Thermo King Sales & Service, Inc. Richfield, OH (800) 486-9670
Expeditors OnLine Thermo King Sales & Service, Inc. Richfield, OH (800) 486-9670
Espar Heater for $950!
- Thread starter Lawrence
- Start date
purgoose10
Veteran Expediter
Yes, they do.
I know they take either fuel but was under the impression they were distinct units and only took one kind depending on if the gas or diesel model. When I checked into them I was led to believe I had to be sure to get the one set up for my type fuel. I'll have to do some more checking. Thanks.
idtrans
Expert Expediter
That is a great price. are they hard to install ?
Installation can be a job. It took me a couple days (partial days, at home...half-fast) to install mine in a straight truck. The biggest obstacle is getting the pickup tube into the fuel tank. I was lucky, my truck had some extra holes tapped into the tank already, with plugs. Drilling holes in a diesel tank is bad enough considering the chance for getting drill chips, shavings into the fuel (maybe others have some suggestions). Drilling a hole into a gas tank could land you on the moon (well, parts of you may make it that far).
The price listed is what I paid for my unit a little over a year ago. I know I talked to these guys and they priced the installation at something like $450-$500. Give 'em a call, they will work with you. That price may seem high but it is not at all out of line.
I'll try to outline the installation as best I can remember.
1. You will need to decide where you want the unit located. Then you have to drill a series of holes through whatever your mounting it to (mine is mounted directly to the floor of the sleeper under the bunk). There are some larger holes to be drilled. I'm thinking one of the mounting holes is something like 2-1/2" dia. where the intake and exhaust tubes connect. It is defintiely large enough to require a hole saw.
2. Run the fuel line. As I mentioned above, this can be the deal breaker unless you have some experience or just lucky (like I was).
3. Run the intake and exhaust tubes. Nothing to this with my truck and I wouldn't think it would be difficult for any vehicle.
4. Install the ducting. You will have air intake ducting and heat output ducting. Any holes that you require will also be large enough to require a hole saw of 2"-3" dia. Just be warned that the espar unit puts out some pretty warm air. They tell me that if you try to run the output heat through your existing ducting you will likely melt it as it's not rated for the amount of heat the espar is capable of.
5. Figure out and install the wiring. I was very unimpressed with the wiring diagram. In fact, mine had some sort of plug on the end of it that didn't fit ANYTHING that came in the box with my unit. After looking at it with a blank stare for 2 or 3 hours, I finally just cut it off. After clearing that hurdle, the wiring diagram starting to make some sense and I was able to hook up the mini-controller that came with the unit. If I remember correctly, the wiring harness was made to plug directly into the unit and was no problem on that end. The end for the controller was the toss up. I suppose that it was set up for a controller different than the mini-contoller that comes with the unit.
The unit comes with fairly detailed instructions. I spent a lot of time reading and re-reading the instructions in order to completely understand what they were asking for.
That's all that I can recall at the moment and it wasn't all that bad once I was finished. But, I would seriously consider letting these guys do the next one if their installation price is still the same.
IF you decide to try it yourself. Plan plenty of time, take your time, and be careful with the fuel tanks!
The price listed is what I paid for my unit a little over a year ago. I know I talked to these guys and they priced the installation at something like $450-$500. Give 'em a call, they will work with you. That price may seem high but it is not at all out of line.
I'll try to outline the installation as best I can remember.
1. You will need to decide where you want the unit located. Then you have to drill a series of holes through whatever your mounting it to (mine is mounted directly to the floor of the sleeper under the bunk). There are some larger holes to be drilled. I'm thinking one of the mounting holes is something like 2-1/2" dia. where the intake and exhaust tubes connect. It is defintiely large enough to require a hole saw.
2. Run the fuel line. As I mentioned above, this can be the deal breaker unless you have some experience or just lucky (like I was).
3. Run the intake and exhaust tubes. Nothing to this with my truck and I wouldn't think it would be difficult for any vehicle.
4. Install the ducting. You will have air intake ducting and heat output ducting. Any holes that you require will also be large enough to require a hole saw of 2"-3" dia. Just be warned that the espar unit puts out some pretty warm air. They tell me that if you try to run the output heat through your existing ducting you will likely melt it as it's not rated for the amount of heat the espar is capable of.
5. Figure out and install the wiring. I was very unimpressed with the wiring diagram. In fact, mine had some sort of plug on the end of it that didn't fit ANYTHING that came in the box with my unit. After looking at it with a blank stare for 2 or 3 hours, I finally just cut it off. After clearing that hurdle, the wiring diagram starting to make some sense and I was able to hook up the mini-controller that came with the unit. If I remember correctly, the wiring harness was made to plug directly into the unit and was no problem on that end. The end for the controller was the toss up. I suppose that it was set up for a controller different than the mini-contoller that comes with the unit.
The unit comes with fairly detailed instructions. I spent a lot of time reading and re-reading the instructions in order to completely understand what they were asking for.
That's all that I can recall at the moment and it wasn't all that bad once I was finished. But, I would seriously consider letting these guys do the next one if their installation price is still the same.
IF you decide to try it yourself. Plan plenty of time, take your time, and be careful with the fuel tanks!
I have a friend that recently transferred his Rigmaster to another truck. Instead of drilling into the tank, he installed a T fitting in the fuel line. It was a bit pricey at around $80 but it's working great.
Hightech_Hobo
Expert Expediter
I did not know Espar could handle gas as well as diesel....Got to hand to those german engineers.
I found the unit very easy to install and knocked it off in a days work. As stated in an earlier post...It was expensive...but I definatly feel I got what I paid for...
Total comfort in any type of weather. I would HIGHLY recommend this product!!!!
I found the unit very easy to install and knocked it off in a days work. As stated in an earlier post...It was expensive...but I definatly feel I got what I paid for...
Total comfort in any type of weather. I would HIGHLY recommend this product!!!!
golfournut
Veteran Expediter
We have a Espar 5 in our 43' boat here in Baltimore. The boat has ducting throughout for the heater. We use it as our only source of heat in the winter here as we live on the boat. This is our 3rd winter with the unit. We have been averaging 2000 hours run time per winter.
Now the problem. According to Espar, because of the "heavy use" and the US diesel fuel, we have to service it once a year to clean the coke out and replace O rings. Cost about $500. The unit is set up to run through 3 different speed cycles. As the interior of the boat reaches the set temp (we like 75 deg), the unit will cycle down to low speed and stay there until it needs to warm up some. The other option is like a traditional unit in a home. Comes on when needed at high. Runs on high until desired temp is reached and cycles off.
The problem with the latter in our set up is the layout of the boat creates hot and cold spots. So by constantly running the boat stays more consistent in temp throughout. However running on high, I have been told, reduces the heavy build up of coke. Ideally if a separate fuel tank with kerosene was used, there would be almost no coke issue.
We run the unit from about mid Nov to mid March. The boat stays dry with no condensation or mold issues that some other boats have running electric heat.
We use about 180 gallons of fuel per winter.
This year we turned it on before servicing. All was good until it shut down in the middle of the night (of course). I got it running briefly, but died again.
The tech came out and pulled some codes, took it back to the shop. Turns out the control module in the unit needed replacing along with the yearly service. Total bill $1256.
Since I broke my leg, we had to move off the boat because of all the steps into an Extended Stay hotel. Pretty nice and a fair price. $950 per month.
At this rate, it is less expensive to be in the hotel than it is to run the Espar. With the fuel, servicing and electric bill for staying on the boat in the winter.
Lesson learned: If I was to install another fuel type heater on a boat, it would be a hydronic. The installation is much more costly and complicated, but is much less to run overall. The unit I would use is a Hurricane heater. Service intervals range between 4 to 7 years dependent on hours used.
Another advantage in a boat installation, if the plumbing is run right to the remote cores, the flooring and compartments have heat from the plumbing.
Example: A neighbor at the Marina, has the plumbing run by each through hull fitting in the engine room. So nothing freezes so you don't have to winterize with antifreeze, just blow out with air. Plus the engine room stays about 55 deg. because of the heat radiant off of the plumbing. No need to hook up to the engines as in block heater, because of the 55 deg temp in the engine room. Another advantage is you can mount the remote radiators just about anywhere.
The disadvantages, but no big deal, is one, the water. Even though it is a closed loop system, there is water level loss. Some more than others. If tapping into engine coolant, to act as your supply tank, it is very important to check the antifreeze level on a regular basis. The other disadvantage is, depending on how many remote radiators you have, you will want to have a separate battery supply to run the fans of the remote radiators. The unit itself doesn't use much except for the electric fuel pump and glow plug.
The airtronic and hydronic both use a considerable amount or amps. More than what the specs say! If you were going to be sitting for 2 or 3 days at a time, I would certainly have an aux deep cycle group 31 105 AH battery, no less.
Mercedes in Germany for European models mounts the hydronic under the hood. They used to use Webasto, but now I believe they use Espar.
A note on installation for vehicles.
There is a valve on the exhaust elbow that looks like a tire valve. Some of the installation kits have been missing the drain coil that is supposed to be attached to that valve. Also fill the coil with water first before attaching. Make sure the coil drains to the outside of the vehicle otherwise you could have a wet floor. Some kits supply a cap and ball bearing fitting for that valve. That's ok along as the condensation can drain out of the exhaust pipe on its own.
If your mounting the unit inside the vehicle, it is important to have one of those two devices on that valve because if left undone hot exhaust will come out of that valve! It isn't a lot, but enough to scorch whatever is beneath it and create an exhaust oder.
Sorry for the babbling, but I am soooo bored! lol
Now the problem. According to Espar, because of the "heavy use" and the US diesel fuel, we have to service it once a year to clean the coke out and replace O rings. Cost about $500. The unit is set up to run through 3 different speed cycles. As the interior of the boat reaches the set temp (we like 75 deg), the unit will cycle down to low speed and stay there until it needs to warm up some. The other option is like a traditional unit in a home. Comes on when needed at high. Runs on high until desired temp is reached and cycles off.
The problem with the latter in our set up is the layout of the boat creates hot and cold spots. So by constantly running the boat stays more consistent in temp throughout. However running on high, I have been told, reduces the heavy build up of coke. Ideally if a separate fuel tank with kerosene was used, there would be almost no coke issue.
We run the unit from about mid Nov to mid March. The boat stays dry with no condensation or mold issues that some other boats have running electric heat.
We use about 180 gallons of fuel per winter.
This year we turned it on before servicing. All was good until it shut down in the middle of the night (of course). I got it running briefly, but died again.
The tech came out and pulled some codes, took it back to the shop. Turns out the control module in the unit needed replacing along with the yearly service. Total bill $1256.
Since I broke my leg, we had to move off the boat because of all the steps into an Extended Stay hotel. Pretty nice and a fair price. $950 per month.
At this rate, it is less expensive to be in the hotel than it is to run the Espar. With the fuel, servicing and electric bill for staying on the boat in the winter.
Lesson learned: If I was to install another fuel type heater on a boat, it would be a hydronic. The installation is much more costly and complicated, but is much less to run overall. The unit I would use is a Hurricane heater. Service intervals range between 4 to 7 years dependent on hours used.
Another advantage in a boat installation, if the plumbing is run right to the remote cores, the flooring and compartments have heat from the plumbing.
Example: A neighbor at the Marina, has the plumbing run by each through hull fitting in the engine room. So nothing freezes so you don't have to winterize with antifreeze, just blow out with air. Plus the engine room stays about 55 deg. because of the heat radiant off of the plumbing. No need to hook up to the engines as in block heater, because of the 55 deg temp in the engine room. Another advantage is you can mount the remote radiators just about anywhere.
The disadvantages, but no big deal, is one, the water. Even though it is a closed loop system, there is water level loss. Some more than others. If tapping into engine coolant, to act as your supply tank, it is very important to check the antifreeze level on a regular basis. The other disadvantage is, depending on how many remote radiators you have, you will want to have a separate battery supply to run the fans of the remote radiators. The unit itself doesn't use much except for the electric fuel pump and glow plug.
The airtronic and hydronic both use a considerable amount or amps. More than what the specs say! If you were going to be sitting for 2 or 3 days at a time, I would certainly have an aux deep cycle group 31 105 AH battery, no less.
Mercedes in Germany for European models mounts the hydronic under the hood. They used to use Webasto, but now I believe they use Espar.
A note on installation for vehicles.
There is a valve on the exhaust elbow that looks like a tire valve. Some of the installation kits have been missing the drain coil that is supposed to be attached to that valve. Also fill the coil with water first before attaching. Make sure the coil drains to the outside of the vehicle otherwise you could have a wet floor. Some kits supply a cap and ball bearing fitting for that valve. That's ok along as the condensation can drain out of the exhaust pipe on its own.
If your mounting the unit inside the vehicle, it is important to have one of those two devices on that valve because if left undone hot exhaust will come out of that valve! It isn't a lot, but enough to scorch whatever is beneath it and create an exhaust oder.
Sorry for the babbling, but I am soooo bored! lol
I'm in a Sprinter, no bulkhead, but it is very well insulated. I have the input and output duct work situated so there is even airflow to eliminate as much as possible the hot and cold spots. And while I also recommend at a minimum a hybrid or deep cycle auxiliary battery to run them, and to not run an Espar off the cranking battery, my experience has been the Espar uses either the same, or less fuel and less current than the specs would indicate. For example, I have an Airtronic 4, and the specs for the current draw is:
8.3 amps - Start
3.3 amps - Boost
2.0 amps - High
1.1 amps - Medium
0.6 amps - Low
Last week in Iowa where the daytime temps were in the low single digits and the nighttime temps were in the double-digit below zeros, as monitored with a Xantrex Battery Monitor mine consumed 12.2 amps in a 12 hour period. (it just so happens that there was a situation where I had the inverter turned off and no other loads whatsoever on the battery bank for a day and a half). That's pretty good for zero degree weather. Granted, insulation and the proper duct work and airflow are major factors, but even I wasn't insulated and mine spent all its time on High or even Boost mode, that would still be in line with the specs and the expected usage.
golfournut
Veteran Expediter
Turtle, how long have you had your's? Which thermostat are you using? Lot to be said about that insulated duct. Good stuff.