Eobr - "off duty/driving" fmsca feedback

[sweetbillebob]

I was asked to provide the documentation I received from the FMCSA when I questioned them regarding OFF DUTY/DRIVING Regs. I gave examples to the FMCSA of using the truck to go to the store, (between loads) to playing tourist for weekend, (between loads). The verbal answer was as follows: You do not have change your "OFF DUTY" status to use your truck for personal transportation if; 1) You Do Not Have Freight On Board, 2) You Have Met Your Sleep Requirement.
He also confirmed it does not matter if you are a straight truck, bobtail, or tractor trailer. There is NO gray area here.

After our conversation he e-mailed me the interpretations listed below.

Per your request:

49 CFR §395.2

Question 2: What conditions must be met for a CMV driver to record meal and other routine stops made during a tour of duty as off-duty time?

Guidance:
1. The driver must have been relieved of all duty and responsibility for the care and custody of the vehicle, its accessories, and any cargo or passengers it may be carrying.

2. The duration of the driver’s relief from duty must be a finite period of time which is of sufficient duration to ensure that the accumulated fatigue resulting from operating a CMV will be significantly reduced.

3. If the driver has been relieved from duty, as noted in (1) above, the duration of the relief from duty must have been made known to the driver prior to the driver’s departure in written instructions from the employer. There are no record retention requirements for these instructions on board a vehicle or at a motor carrier’s principal place of business.

4. During the stop, and for the duration of the stop, the driver must be at liberty to pursue activities of his/her own choosing and to leave the premises where the vehicle is situated

Question 20: How must a driver record time spent on-call awaiting dispatch?

Guidance:
The time that a driver is free from obligations to the employer and is able to use that time to secure appropriate rest may be recorded as off-duty time. The fact that a driver must also be available to receive a call in the event the driver is needed at work, even under the threat of discipline for non-availability, does not by itself impair the ability of the driver to use this time for rest.

If the employer generally requires its drivers to be available for call after a mandatory rest period which complies with the regulatory requirement, the time spent standing by for a work-related call, following the required off-duty period, may be properly recorded as off-duty time.

49 CFR §395.8

Question 26:
If a driver is permitted to use a CMV for personal reasons, how must the driving time be recorded?

Guidance:
When a driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work, time spent traveling from a driver’s home to his/her terminal (normal work reporting location), or from a driver’s terminal to his/her home, may be considered off-duty time. Similarly, time spent traveling short distances from a driver’s en route lodgings (such as en route terminals or motels) to restaurants in the vicinity of such lodgings may be considered off-duty time. The type of conveyance used from the terminal to the driver’s home, from the driver’s home to the terminal, or to restaurants in the vicinity of en route lodgings would not alter the situation unless the vehicle is laden. A driver may not operate a laden CMV as a personal conveyance. The driver who uses a motor carrier’s CMV for transportation home, and is subsequently called by the employing carrier and is then dispatched from home, would be on-duty from the time the driver leaves home.

A driver placed out of service for exceeding the requirements of the hours of service regulations may not drive a CMV to any location to obtain rest.

Rules & Regulations - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration


Matthew Fabry
Acting Federal Programs Manager
USDOT/FMCSA-MI Division
517-853-5990 ext 103

 

[TeamCaffee]

Great information thanks for sharing!

 

[FJK1954]

I wonder about when you go "out of service" to go home or go get repairs etc. if this means you can log all that as off-duty??

 

[sweetbillebob]

If it's truck related, like repairs, you must log it. For folks who have a terminal, and drive home empty, they can log as "off duty" for sure. If they are then dispatched from home, then they log driving from home. If they go back to the terminal to pick up, they can log off duty back to the terminal. I am not sure about driving home empty after delivering a load when a terminal is not involved. I will ask my FMCSA contact next time I talk with him about those us who do not have a home terminal.

 

[nightcreacher]

To be relieved from duty,you must have a note or card from the company saying that you are not responsible for the load or equipment after you have gone off duty for more than 15 mins.Ive tried to get this from FDCC over the years,and have never been able to aquire one.Unless you have a note or similar one,you can't use your truck as a POV,private owned vehicle.
Here is something to think about,the garage that works on my truck,sometimes does a customer pick up and dellivery,with the new C_LINK,how do you prove you weren't driving the truck in a case like that.Oh and while garage is diving truck,its on their insurance.

 

[TeamCaffee]

You will have a receipt from the shop for shop time.

 

[sweetbillebob]

To be relieved from duty,you must have a note or card from the company saying that you are not responsible for the load or equipment after you have gone off duty for more than 15 mins.Ive tried to get this from FDCC over the years,and have never been able to aquire one.Unless you have a note or similar one,you can't use your truck as a POV,private owned vehicle.
Here is something to think about,the garage that works on my truck,sometimes does a customer pick up and dellivery,with the new C_LINK,how do you prove you weren't driving the truck in a case like that.Oh and while garage is diving truck,its on their insurance.

I know we all know what we think we know. That is why I contacted the FMCSA twice before posting. Both representatives agreed that using your vehicle as personal conveyance is allowed if you are not loaded and have met your sleep requirement. Those are the only requirements. The "interpretations" in the 1st post were sent to me by the 2nd representative who is Acting Director of the FMCSA's Michigan Division. He did homework before calling me back and sending me the "interpretations" that backed up his verbal feedback of qualifying "Off Duty/Driving" situations. I can see that if you were driving someone else's truck, that permission would be required.
We have to get our own Bobtail insurance for a reason. And my insurance agent has verified, loaded Fedex covers, unloaded Bobtail covers. They are not legally liable for us in any fashion when we are not dispatched. And he thinks they would tell us to call our agent, not theirs if something happened when dispatched but not yet loaded unless actually on our way to the pickup.

 

[BigRed32771]

I just got off the phone with someone is Safety about the logging of personal use of the truck and was informed that their interpretation is that there is no such thing. If a driver with a CDL is driving a CMV with a DOT number it must be logged as "On-Duty Driving" with the possible exception of a move lasting 7 minutes or less (no doubt the origin of the .7 mile limit for personal use that I'm told the new EOBR will permit). The person I talked to wasn't the actual "logging specialist" but she insisted that this is the rule and any such usage not so logged was a violation and/or a falsification of the log. She did suggest that I call back tomorrow and talk to Bob. I will do so.

I am also going to try to get rulings from my regional FMCSA office on this. I do not like this interpretation and use of the EOBR which I am going to be forced to have installed, and will be trying very hard to get it changed. For the record, I do know that as a team we have 2 14-hour clocks to use to manage such things, but it will make it very hard for both of us to get a 34-hour restart if one of us has to log as on-duty to go to the grocery store or a movie while we're twiddling our thumbs for a whole weekend someplace.

 

[MYGIA]

I just got off the phone with someone is Safety about the logging of personal use of the truck and was informed that their interpretation is that there is no such thing. If a driver with a CDL is driving a CMV with a DOT number it must be logged as "On-Duty Driving" with the possible exception of a move lasting 7 minutes or less (no doubt the origin of the .7 mile limit for personal use that I'm told the new EOBR will permit). The person I talked to wasn't the actual "logging specialist" but she insisted that this is the rule and any such usage not so logged was a violation and/or a falsification of the log. She did suggest that I call back tomorrow and talk to Bob. I will do so.

I am also going to try to get rulings from my regional FMCSA office on this. I do not like this interpretation and use of the EOBR which I am going to be forced to have installed, and will be trying very hard to get it changed. For the record, I do know that as a team we have 2 14-hour clocks to use to manage such things, but it will make it very hard for both of us to get a 34-hour restart if one of us has to log as on-duty to go to the grocery store or a movie while we're twiddling our thumbs for a whole weekend someplace.

When I call in to speak with anyone about logs, I speak with Bob. He is the only one in the department, in my opinion, who knows what he is talking about. I have been given mis-information from others many many times and Bob has been shocked when I have reviewed it with him.

As for the other point, just because someone in Safety believes there is no such thing as personal use of a CMV doesn’t mean they are correct. It would appear from the specific FMCSA quotes already posted on this site, that the FMCSA does view specific times and circumstances that constitute personal use of a CMV.

This is but one of many issues FECC will need to resolve, and quickly, as they “work out the bugs” of this hurry-hurry, rush-rush roll out of the new QC and EORB.

 

[sweetbillebob]

The feedback I got from "our" safety department was similar. Which is why I contacted the FMCSA directly. (This included Bob.)
I also had a encounter with a Maryland DOT officer last week. She agreed that our personal driving around town between loads was off duty. She noted that the comments should say something like "personal conveyance" when we are driving "Off Duty".

We also talked about the lack of ability to print out logs. We use our computer for our logging, and I had trouble printing out. She looked up the regs. while waiting for me to get the problem corrected. All logs thru "yesterday" should already be printed out and available to hand to the DOT on demand. We then should be able to print out a partial for the current day.
I explained that Fedex has a different impression. And she said that if I could not have printed them out, I would have been put out of service for 10 hours with a $280 fine. "If I am wrong, you would have to work that out in court."
So, even if Fedex is correct saying that the DOT must look at our EOBR to see our logs. This particular DOT agent had a different opinion and I would have been sitting with a fine. That maybe I could have gotten rectified later.
It has now been nearly 4 weeks since my 1st e-mail to Scott McCahan, with a follow-up e-mail two weeks later. He has yet to respond.

 

[1CHINGON]

Relax. Deep breath. Repeat.

I drove for 2 companies that used EOBRs and it was quite simple. At some scales DOT looked at my display, satisfied their curiosity, and kept going.

Logs. Current day and prior 7 day recap was available on the display screen. Once, the officer was unable to decipher the info and the safety dept. faxed over a printed copy of my logs. Easy.

Off-duty driving. Sometimes I was able to drive off-duty during a 30 min. period, from a shipper or receiver only, to a nearby location to grab a bite to eat. No weekend grocery runs allowed.
Planning ahead was the key.

Letter. One company provided a letter stating when it considered the driver on and off-duty. i.e. during a 10 hr. break, at a truck stop either waiting to deliver the next day or just empty waiting on a load.

Relax. FEDEX is a big company with qualified personnel who will implement a proper program. Then there will be the experimental trucks that will determine if the program works properly. Then the rest of the fleet will begin to use the proven and tested program. Easy.

Why worry about rain in Seattle when you're in sunny Miami and have no plans to go to Seattle??? Let FEDEX do their thing and then we'll do our thing. Easy.

 

[BigRed32771]

Relax. Deep breath. Repeat.

Relax. FEDEX is a big company with qualified personnel who will implement a proper program. Then there will be the experimental trucks that will determine if the program works properly. Then the rest of the fleet will begin to use the proven and tested program. Easy.

Why worry about rain in Seattle when you're in sunny Miami and have no plans to go to Seattle??? Let FEDEX do their thing and then we'll do our thing. Easy.

Hate to harsh your mellow, but FEDEX is already rolling out the new QC and EOBR system, and this is still an unresolved issue.

I know there are work-arounds possible. For us, we'll just have to put all weekend driving time on my wife because I'm usually in much greater need of a 34-hour restart than she is due to the way we divvy up the workload on runs. But work-arounds are beside the point. Why should we have to adapt to a system which is designed around an interpretation of the rules that is flawed? Why are we being forced to work-around or give up a freedom which the law and regulations allows us?

 

[bubblehead]

I just got off the phone with someone is Safety about the logging of personal use of the truck and was informed that their interpretation is that there is no such thing. If a driver with a CDL is driving a CMV with a DOT number it must be logged as "On-Duty Driving" with the possible exception of a move lasting 7 minutes or less (no doubt the origin of the .7 mile limit for personal use that I'm told the new EOBR will permit).

According to FMSCA; "Personal Use of a Commercial Motor Vehicle
It is possible that occasionally you may not use a truck in commerce at all. You may be moving your personal belongings to a new house or, as a hobby you may be taking your horses to a horse show. As long as the activity is not in support of a business, you are not operating in commerce.
If you are not operating your truck in commerce, you are not subject to the hours-of-service regulations."

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/truck/driver/hos/fmcsa-guide-to-hos.pdf

Since this is their publication, perhaps safety can give you an interpretation of FMSCA's interpretation...you might want to send them the above link...you will find the "personal use" on page 6.

Hope this helps

 

[MYGIA]

Hate to harsh your mellow, but FEDEX is already rolling out the new QC and EOBR system, and this is still an unresolved issue.

I know there are work-arounds possible. For us, we'll just have to put all weekend driving time on my wife because I'm usually in much greater need of a 34-hour restart than she is due to the way we divvy up the workload on runs. But work-arounds are beside the point. Why should we have to adapt to a system which is designed around an interpretation of the rules that is flawed? Why are we being forced to work-around or give up a freedom which the law and regulations allows us?

I agree. There is nothing for which to take a chill pill. These are legitimate questions and they deserve correct and accurate answers in a timely manner.

I was thinking about this today while driving. What about all of the folks who have already been logging personal use of their CMV while using paper logs? Certainly this has shown up in the random log audits completed by FECC. Have they made an issue and classified it as falsification of logs for current practices on paper logs?

 

[MYGIA]

The feedback I got from "our" safety department was similar. Which is why I contacted the FMCSA directly. (This included Bob.)
I also had a encounter with a Maryland DOT officer last week. She agreed that our personal driving around town between loads was off duty. She noted that the comments should say something like "personal conveyance" when we are driving "Off Duty".

We also talked about the lack of ability to print out logs. We use our computer for our logging, and I had trouble printing out. She looked up the regs. while waiting for me to get the problem corrected. All logs thru "yesterday" should already be printed out and available to hand to the DOT on demand. We then should be able to print out a partial for the current day.
I explained that Fedex has a different impression. And she said that if I could not have printed them out, I would have been put out of service for 10 hours with a $280 fine. "If I am wrong, you would have to work that out in court."
So, even if Fedex is correct saying that the DOT must look at our EOBR to see our logs. This particular DOT agent had a different opinion and I would have been sitting with a fine. That maybe I could have gotten rectified later.
It has now been nearly 4 weeks since my 1st e-mail to Scott McCahan, with a follow-up e-mail two weeks later. He has yet to respond.

Unfortunately, this had been my experience in the past and continues, as my e-mail to Scott McCann of 15 days ago remains unacknowledged.

I have had much better success going right to the top and sending questions and concerns directly to Jason.

 

[layoutshooter]

I too have been waiting for some answers for over a week now.

 

[BigRed32771]

I'm still pondering the meaning of the last little bit of the following quote from a FMCSA online publication called "Interstate Truck Driver's Guide to Hours of Service." (http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/truck/driver/hos/fmcsa-guide-to-hos.pdf)
I don't know how current the info in the pdf file is, but the statement about EOBR's raises an eyebrow here.

What Is an Automatic On-Board Recording Device?
Many motor carriers have installed electronic devices in their trucks to help accurately record hours-of-service information. If such a device meets the requirements of Section 395.15 of the safety regulations, it is called an Automatic On-Board Recording Device (AOBRD), and may be used in place of a paper logbook.
Manufacturers of AOBRDs must certify that their devices meet the Section 395.15 requirements. This includes a requirement that an AOBRD must be mechanically or electronically connected to the truck to automatically record, at a minimum, engine use, road speed, miles driven, the date, and time of day. Drivers enter other information required to complete the hours-of-service records. You should discuss with your carrier whether any device on your truck used to record hours-of-service information has been certified to meet Section 395.15 requirements.
The AOBRD device must be capable of displaying or printing for enforcement officers the times of duty status changes and other required information. It must also store this information for the prior 7 days. You may review Section 395.15 for additional AOBRD requirements.
An AOBRD may be used without creating any paper copies of logs by transmitting the data electronically to the carrier, or it may be used to print copies of the logs that would be signed by the driver and mailed to the carrier.
You may have heard about Electronic On-Board Recorders (EOBRs). The use of EOBRs to record hours-of-service information is not yet authorized by the safety regulations, but it has been formally proposed. An EOBR is more complex than an AOBRD and, if approved, may use new technologies such as Global Positioning Systems to automatically record additional hours-of-service information.

 

[BigRed32771]

Here's where I suspect the company has us by the short and curlies:

49 CFR 390.3(d): (d) Additional requirements. Nothing in subchapter B of this chapter shall be construed to prohibit an employer from requring and enforcing more stringent requirements relating to safety of operation and employee safety and health.

 

[layoutshooter]

It will come down to "it's their way or the highway" as it always does. I love being treated as an employee.

 

[ATeam]

I believe DOT truck inspections are required once a year by the law. Some carriers impose the same requirement on its contractors. Our carrier requires DOT truck inspections twice a year. I know of at least one carrier that requires them every three months.

Just because a carrier has the right to impose more stringent requirements than the law requires, it does not mean that it must or that it will.

I don't see this as a case where our carrier has us by the short hairs and is imposing the 0.7 personal conveyance rule for no good reason. I see this as a case where the rule was decided upon for reasons that seemed good at the time.

With contractors now objecting and becoming well informed about what the law actually says regarding personal conveyance, I would expect the rule to be re-visited or at least fully explained to the fleet.

It may help to remember that no decision our carrier makes is made in a vacuum. With an in-house legal department, a complex body of law to deal with, the unknown territory being created by the new devices, over 1,000 trucks on the road, and the infinite set of variables this all creates, there is more to consider than a laid over contractor's desire to log him or herself off duty while driving to the grocery store.

I expect answers to the questions raised here will come. It just may take longer than us grocery-store-going contractors would like (such rebels we are...going to the grocery store and maybe even a movie!). We see it as a simple question. I believe those in the office have more to consider before they answer.