Engine preference??

Tennesee Trash · Jan 18, 2005

I have been looking around for the last couple of weeks and have decided that I'll probably try to buy a Freightliner FL70,80 unit. My questions is the type engine. I see where most have the 3126 Cat motors and some have the cummins engine, which is the better of the two? When will they each require rebuilding, such as after 400k or whatever. I realize type maintenance , use, driver , all factor in I just am asking in general. Will the Cummins be a better choice ,as I have seen so much said negative about the 3126 Cat..As one added question what is considered too much mileage for a "newbie" to get at the beginning, considering dependability. I say all this because I have inquired with a dealer about a 2000 FL80, 356K miles,70" sleeper, 22' box, no lift,TV/VCR, microwave, and barn doors, price quoted as $34,500.00, looks really well taken care of. He has said he will put new steer tires on and DOT the unit and have it ready to go within 2 days notice. What's DOT'd ?
I am new and some times ask dumb questions but it is the only way I know to get an answer.
Thanks, Larry , Tn/Trash

Glen Rice · Jan 18, 2005

No dumb questions here. The DOT part of the sale is the inspection which certifies the vehicle will be safe to operate and meet all Department Of Transportaion requirements. This would be the same type of inspection you will be subject to on the highway when you are pulled into the scale. The mechanic will certify that with his or her inspection which will include the location of the facility doing the inspection and the persons signature. This should not be taken lightly and part of license will be the fact that you can do an inspection of your vehicle at the beginning and end of each day. This is called your pretrip and postrip inspections. As far as mileage and which engine to use, without a oil analysis and dyno run of the truck I would'nt trust either one with close to 400,000 miles you are getting near the overhaul cycle. If your dealer has all the maintenance records for the vehicle that would greatly help make your decision. Are you financially strong enough to buy this truck and three weeks later spend 12,000 dollars for a engine? Buying a low mileage truck is certainly more expensive, but may be worth the extra money. Will your dealer sell you a 1 year, 100,000 mile warranty? These are just a few ideas, I'm sure others will have additional insight on what you are up against. Good Luck.

Tennesee Trash · Jan 18, 2005

Glen ,he offered a oil analysis that had been done by the previous owner, December 2004. I saw no reason to look at it at the time due to just"shopping". What will the oil analysis tell me, condition of engine overall, blow by, compression, what? I saw where they would charge extra for Dynoing a engine even if not purchased. Would it be better to have it checked over by a mechanic away from the dealer? I live in one state and would have to go to another for this particular unit, can I get a mechanic to check it that day or would it require an appointment? I know this is depending on how busy they are , etc.. I just need to know, is it normal for a purchaser to go to an outside mechanic and will they survey a truck at most shops?
You mentioned the dreaded "breakdown" word concerning the truck with so many miles, what would be considered a decent # of miles to buy a used unit,and at what price range? I know I ask a lot but time spent here with the professional seasoned driver will say me big bucks down the road.
I am only researching right now due to being a"newbie"and don't plan on buying till I get more time under my belt with someone else.
Thanks Larry, Tn/Trash

RichM · Jan 18, 2005

I would avoid the Cat engine and only go with a Cummins C Engine.The Cumminsis is a wet sleeve engine and can have a inframe rebuild, thus keeping labor costs down.
One oil analysis doesn't do much,you need to see several to determine what elements are starting to increase. But the fact that the previous owner took the time to do oil analyses probably indicates he/she took pretty good care of it.
Most localities have independent Cat/Cummins engine service and repair locations. I would have them inspect the engine and possibly dyno it.

davekc · Jan 18, 2005

If they are high milage I agree. Go with the cummins. If they are low milage, I don't think it matters too much. As mentioned, oil samples don't mean alot unless you have several, and know what milage a certain report represents.
Davekc

Tennesee Trash · Jan 18, 2005

RichM ,I can see what you are saying about more oil analysis needed. I had no idea what he (dealer) was talking about, so I figure he saw this and didn't offer the full history. I beleive from what I have re-READ on the past threads you are 100% correct about rebuild cost. I can see where $12K to $13K for engine repairs is the norm not the unusual and so with that said ,wise choices are needed. You ,Glen , Tom ,and others advised against buying something without knowing the facts/ history of a particular truck. I can and will follow your advice. I sure am not in any financial position to have repairs out of the gate. I have working capital and buying someone's wore out junk is not part of my financial plan.

Is the class 8 trucks the new way to go? Are they affordable? The one I looked at was $97K , Kentworth 2001 , 476K miles, seems awful pricey. Dealer said it was a million mile truck, is that for engine rebuild, truck life?

When they quote 250k miles of engine use do they figure in idling time in any way?

Thanks Larry , Tn/ Trash

davekc · Jan 18, 2005

Any truck with 476,000 miles whether class 8 or not is going to need large reserves for repair and replacement. It is probably just about out of warranty at that milage. They may be giving that milage because it has a generator and limited milage? To know for sure, have it hooked up to a computer and get the hours off of it. That will provide a much better number to judge from.
When a truck hits that kind of milage, many other issues start to arise not related to the engine.
Davekc

Tennesee Trash · Jan 19, 2005

>When a truck hits that kind of milage, many other issues
>start to arise not related to the engine.
>Davekc
Davekc what is acceptable mileage (usually) for a used unit 150K, 250K,300k, or under 150K? Are you referring to bearings, steering conponents, axles, hubs, what? Or is it all of the above? What is good acceptable price for low mileage trucks ? Do you buy extended warranty if offered?
I know a lot of veriables here ,I just need a baseline to work from.
Thanks , Larry , Tn/Trash

aardvarkman · Apr 19, 2005

tt,
and now for the differing opinion - i truly believe the 3126b cat is a fine engine if maintained carefully - then so is a cummins, however the cummins 5.9 L. engine tends to vibrate itself to death in short order. i have had both and had a large number of fuel line leaks on the cummins. that problem was supposed to be solved in 04. the 8.3 cummins is much better.it doesn't matter which engine you get if you get an inferior chassis. the kenworth or pete may be a little more but they are bulletproof and outlast a freightcruncher by far. time spent in the garage is lost time whether it is warranteed or not. the peterbilt or kw will spend a lot less time in the shop - and you don't have the resources for that according to you. you should be concerned with the final drive ratio as fuel mileage will be just as important as any other item. who cares how long it lasts if you are only getting 7-8 mpg. a good expediter truck should get 10-11 mpg at least. good luck.

The Gibster · Apr 19, 2005

We had 489,000 on the ISB260 Cummins before we rolled it in for the reman engine. When pulling it down (started by almost every seal or gasket leaking - by vibration as mentioned earlier) they discovered very worn cam lobes, tappet ends worn severely on 4 tappets, and one lobe had a longitudinal hairline crack. Thank God it didn't come apart under load!

Repairs were cheaper than a fix, and we reasoned the new ISB fuel system would be better (also mentioned correctly in this thread).

The oil analysis should show the metal particles from the cam and tappets. And the vibration also eats up and spits out A/C compressor units, it shakes the mounting ears off of them. Look closely, especially if the compressor is new.

Check the archives with a search, it should give you loads of info.
Good luck either way!

The Gibster

davekc · Apr 19, 2005

Not quite there with the Cat, but it is at 435,000 this week. Scheduled for a dyno and valve adjustment next time to FL. It will be interesting to see what they say.
Davekc

Broompilot · Apr 23, 2005

If you call the # I gave you, you will have a GREAT truck with a Pro-Heat system to boot. After reading the posts re-Freightliners I would much rather have a used KW with a Cummins.