?? EnerBurn (DPF) ??

[Timbo Houston]

Anyone use this stuff?? EnerBurn. Supposed to help with diesel fuel to burn at a much lower temp thus helping the dpf also. Don't get much response on this site these o/o drivers don't wanna help no body out here. It's like pulling gold teeth to get a response!.

 

[tknight]

Probably because it's Nerver been used and one's ever used it actually in their motors frankly I've never even heard of it


Sent from my iPhone using EO Forums

 

[xiggi]

You've had replies to every post you have made. Answers aren't always gonna be as many or exactly what your looking for.

Personally never used it, I think lucas makes one too. But I'm not much of an additive guy.

 

[Turtle]

There really isn't any magic bullet to get rid of the DPF. Better to learn it well.

EnerBurn is basically 90% light aromatic naptha and 10% ferrocene, which is an iron-based additive. It leaves behind little red deposits in the combustion chamber, which is iron oxide. This causes a catalytic conversion that oxygenates the fuel in the chamber, causing lower soot. It absolutely works to reduce soot levels. It works better for older engines running on high sulfur fuel. The tradeoff is about a 4% hit in fuel consumption, plus about a 2% increase in NOx emissions. But the DPF filter will stay cleaner longer and won't require as much heat to regen, or regen as often, because the ferrocene is well distributed in the soot trapped in the filter, so it'll burn off quicker during a regen. Because the filter stays cleaner for longer, the back pressure is reduced, which increases fuel economy, so the 4% fuel hit is largely offset.

EnerBurn claims to have special additives that reduce NOx and increase fuel mileage by a really lot, but whatever it is is ain't listed on the MSDS. So I dunno. You won't get 10% better fuel economy, no matter how many times you read it on their Web page. If it did that, the EPA would mandate its use in all diesel fuel.

Do not over dose, as the recommended dose will yield a 1% ferrocene solution in the fuel, but if it goes to 2% or 3% the soot level dramatically increases, and so does the NOx emissions.

All things being equal, a cetane improver to get to 50 cetane will accomplish the same things, as it will cause a more complete burn in the chamber and less soot. A cocktail of a full dose Power Service (to bump cetane) and a half dose of ferrocene will benefit the DPF come regen time.

 

[Timbo Houston]

There really isn't any magic bullet to get rid of the DPF. Better to learn it well.

EnerBurn is basically 90% light aromatic naptha and 10% ferrocene, which is an iron-based additive. It leaves behind little red deposits in the combustion chamber, which is iron oxide. This causes a catalytic conversion that oxygenates the fuel in the chamber, causing lower soot. It absolutely works to reduce soot levels. It works better for older engines running on high sulfur fuel. The tradeoff is about a 4% hit in fuel consumption, plus about a 2% increase in NOx emissions. But the DPF filter will stay cleaner longer and won't require as much heat to regen, or regen as often, because the ferrocene is well distributed in the soot trapped in the filter, so it'll burn off quicker during a regen. Because the filter stays cleaner for longer, the back pressure is reduced, which increases fuel economy, so the 4% fuel hit is largely offset.

EnerBurn claims to have special additives that reduce NOx and increase fuel mileage by a really lot, but whatever it is is ain't listed on the MSDS. So I dunno. You won't get 10% better fuel economy, no matter how many times you read it on their Web page. If it did that, the EPA would mandate its use in all diesel fuel.

Do not over dose, as the recommended dose will yield a 1% ferrocene solution in the fuel, but if it goes to 2% or 3% the soot level dramatically increases, and so does the NOx emissions.

All things being equal, a cetane improver to get to 50 cetane will accomplish the same things, as it will cause a more complete burn in the chamber and less soot. A cocktail of a full dose Power Service (to bump cetane) and a half dose of ferrocene will benefit the DPF come regen time.

Thanks for the info!

 

[betterdiesel]

Hello Turtle, thanks for admitting me to this forum. I read your reply posted above, re: EnerBurn and that there is no magic bullet for DPF issues. Please permit me to contribute further in response to the question posted by Timbo Houston.
When used as directed EnerBurn is an extremely cost-effective means of managing soot-related issues that cause frequent need for DPF regen's and down-time for cleaning and/or replacement. Accumulation of soot is also the main cause of premature failure of other exhaust-side components (EGR's, EGR-coolers, turbo-chargers, sensors) as well as physical wear of cylinder liners. EnerBurn effectively eliminates soot related issues from after-treatment systems. However, it is not a replacement for preventive maintenance by a qualified service professional. The engine owner will still need to periodically service the DPF to remove accumulated "ash" - that is the inorganic residues left over from fuel, engine oil, rusted fuel lines and tanks and normal wear particles from moving metal parts - at intervals recommended by the OEM. This is typically 200,000 miles or greater. The need for the 24-hour DPF bake-out procedure is eliminated with the use of EnerBurn. Only the ash residue needs to be removed and this is done either with the air-blade booth or a water-based bath followed by a low-temperature bake - saving both money, time, the risk of degrading the DPF by high temperature baking.

The information you provided on EnerBurn as a fuel additive is good start. In the interest in sharing accurate information, I would like to offer the following corrections for the record.
1) The "4% trade-off" you mentioned implies a 4% fuel penalty with use of EnerBurn. This does not exist unless you are referring to the "break-even" point at which the percent increase in MPG essentially covers the cost of treating fuel with EnerBurn - this is around 4% increase in MPG. The 2% increase in NOx emissions you mentioned is theoretically impossible with EnerBurn. This is because EnerBurn produces a catalytically enhanced fuel efficiency (e.g., release of more heat per unit of fuel burned during the power stroke) that results in a lowered exhaust gas temperature which, in turn, produces lower NOx emissions. Results for both significantly improved fuel economy and corresponding lowered emissions go hand-in-hand (I'll not inflict a chemistry lesson on you - just let me know if you want a full explanation). Both have been exhaustively (no pun intended) measured and certified by 3rd party engineering companies and all are statistically valid. On average, there is a 10% reduced fuel consumption when properly measured UNDER CONTROLLED engine conditions; the range is 5% to 12% depending on engine settings for torque and rpm while under test. Based on end-user reports the likelihood that most end-users will see a real increase in fuel economy for themselves in their own engines is pretty high...but not everyone reports an increase. This is to be expected under real-world driving conditions and equipment types that are highly variable.

The major benefit for engines equipped with DPF systems is reduction of soot loads - and that is also validated with many measurements with results that range from 35% to 70% lowered soot levels in the exhaust.

"You won't get 10% better fuel economy,...If it did that, the EPA would mandate its use in all diesel fuel..." is an objection I've been hearing for years. I won't waste yours or the other members time to address this here. But, in our capitalistic society all you have to do is "follow the money" and you can probably figure this one out on your own.
Your figures quoted for the formula concentration and the solution concentration of the fuel borne catalyst (FBC) ingredient are not correct. EnerBurn is the registered trademark for a proprietary formula and this information is not public knowledge.
The phrase "less is more" applies to long-term use of Enerburn; I recommend a maintenance dose that is 25% less concentrated than the initial "cleaning and conditioning" dose of 1:2500. For more information please contact me at JKG Fuel Solutions.

"All things being equal, a cetane improver to get to 50 cetane will accomplish the same things, as it will cause a more complete burn in the chamber and less soot" . I would really like to see results of studies that show the reduction in soot emissions (either measured as opacity or PM) that corresponds to an increase in cetane number as effected by a cetane booster additive. My gut feeling is that EnerBurn is far more effective in eliminating soot and smoke than is a "cetane improver". Any data you have or can reference would be useful. Yes, like you, I think that combining EnerBurn with a half to one-third dose of an good multi-functional additive such as Power Service is a good practice if one is so inclined. I especially favor multi-functional additives that enhance fuel lubricity (for UCL). I also recommend periodic use of a detergent additive for clearing injector deposits. Supplement with a cold flow improver (CFI) additive in extreme cold as needed.

We live in a free market, so consumers are free to pick and choose from a wide range of after-market additives. The trends in this industrial market sector as I see them are good. I think that diesel engine owners are becoming more adept at educating themselves in the differences between types of fuel additives and are making selections based their particular problem or need. My gut feeling is that fuel additives are gaining acceptance in the market for addressing the problems commonly associated with diesel fuel and today's emissions-controlled engines. Everyone needs to do their own due diligence to try to stay well informed. Thank you for offering this forum.

 

[Turtle]

Thanks for the information. I do not claim to be an expert on EnerBurn, nor a chemist (although I am relatively well schooled in chemistry, albeit a long time ago). If my information is incorrect, it is because the California Air Resource Board, the University of Minnesota, and the US Bureau of Mines are also incorrect (NOx emissions and fuel consumption), as is the EnerBurn MSDS (formula concentration).

I do not have at the ready the results of studies that show the reduction in soot emissions (either measured as opacity or PM) that corresponds to an increase in cetane number as effected by a cetane booster additive, per se, but the number of studies performed to show the difference in soot emissions of 50+ cetane versus cetane below that of 50 was convincing enough that Europe, Canada, Califormia and the eastern third of Texas have all mandated cetane levels above 50 for the purpose of reducing NOx and soot levels. I am quite certain those studies are not difficult to obtain.

I am not at all an opponent of EnerBurn. I know that is works, and I know how it works. Ferrocene has been used in Kentucky coal mining equipment for years, specifically to reduce the soot emissions, and I know they use it in the diesel train engines in Canada, because I've delieverd ferrocene to the Canadian National Railway. I also know that the amount of ferrocene the CNR uses is dependent on the cetane level of the fuel they are using at any given time. Above a certain cetane level, I think they said is was 55, and they use no ferrocene.

As I previously stated, all things being equal, a 50 cetane will accomplish the same things as EnerBurn, primarily that of reduced soot. It may not accompish it at the same level as EnerBurn, but the higher cetane will rmost definitely reduce soot. Ideally, a combination of a cetane improver (or 50+ cetane t begin with) and EnerBurn would be better. But if faced with 42-45 cetane dieself fuel and no EnerBurn handy, a cheap cetane boost from Power Service is certainly better than nothing.

 

[betterdiesel]

Hi Turtle. Good follow-up info, thanks. Now I see where you are coming from with those numbers. The U of Mn and US Bureau of Mines reports are ancient history, meaning they date back to when the fuel borne catalysts were still being investigated decades ago. Formulas and measurement technologies and methods have advanced well beyond that. Summaries of much more recent studies are available on my JKG Fuel Solutions website under heading the "EnerBurn Experience" should you wish to take a look. All the best.

 

[betterdiesel]

p.s., I can also email to you a powerpoint presentation that specifically addresses studies of lowered soot emissions and NOx reduction. I just need an email address. You can enter a contact request from my website and I can reply to that. Thanks and enjoy your day.

 

[Turtle]

Thanks, but I just don't have a burning passion for lowered soot and NOx emissions studies.

 

[betterdiesel]

Coincidentally, one of my long-term users of EnerBurn provided me with his comparison of EnerBurn followed by no EnerBurn but instead substituted a national brand diesel additive with cetane improver. He sent me his oil analysis reports (4 in a row over 12 month period) with EnerBurn and they were PERFECT. No wear metals, no soot. Then after a few months on the leading national brand of Cetane improver his oil is dirty again and his oil analysis was flagged for excessive wear metals (copper and lead). He called me to switch back to EnerBurn. The cost comparison between the two product was exactly the same....no difference, ~$30 per week for 500 gallons of diesel consumed per week.

 

[Treadmill]

Coincidentally, one of my long-term users of EnerBurn provided me with his comparison of EnerBurn followed by no EnerBurn but instead substituted a national brand diesel additive with cetane improver. He sent me his oil analysis reports (4 in a row over 12 month period) with EnerBurn and they were PERFECT. No wear metals, no soot. Then after a few months on the leading national brand of Cetane improver his oil is dirty again and his oil analysis was flagged for excessive wear metals (copper and lead). He called me to switch back to EnerBurn. The cost comparison between the two product was exactly the same....no difference, ~$30 per week for 500 gallons of diesel consumed per week.

Spoken like a true salesperson. Thanks for the commercial. Lol.

 

[piper1]

Copper and Lead as wear metals are connecting rod or main bearings.....about as far away from the combustion chamber (and the effects of combustion changes from any additive) as you can get. If the combustion was so lousy and soot creating to create THAT much soot that it ACTUALLY creates enough oil thickening to create bottom end wear...there would be severe mechanical problems. In 30 years of looking at fleet oil samples, I've never seen "soot" in oil problems in a mechanically sound engine cause wear in the bottom end.

 

[betterdiesel]

The soot gets into the oil when exhaust gases bypass the ring seal. The bearings are coated with engine oil laden with soot particles and that is what creates the physical wear.

 

[betterdiesel]

Just received this question from a prospective client - it comes up often enough so, I am sharing along with my reply as this goes back to the discussion on cetane improvers.

Q: Does EnerBurn raise the cetane level like those other additives claim?
The engineer in me is curious - thanks for taking my questions!

Cetane number is, from my point of view anyway, pretty widely misunderstood. It is a lab test using a standard method developed by ASTM (American Society for Testing and Materials) that reflects the composition of hydrocarbons (HC) in diesel for meeting minimum physical requirements for spontaneous combustion under pressure. The parameter that is measured is delay between the time the fuel is injected to the onset of a pressure increase in the combustion chamber. This is important since diesel engines are pressure-ignited (by contrast gasoline engines are spark-ignited). So it makes good sense to include a fuel test for cetane as a fuel specification for diesel to ensure quality control in the free market.

Here is what is misunderstood - there is no relation between cetane and fuel economy or emissions regulations for EPA "critera air" pollutants which include "soot" or particulate matter (PM). The fuel additives industry wrongly exploits this aspect in the marketing of their products by associating improved combustion with cetane number in the mind of the consumer. To the contrary, there are reports in the literature that show a direct correlation between increases in cetane number and opacity (quantitative smoke test measurements).

The role of cetane improvers is to bring a poor batch of diesel back into spec with respect to the minimum specification for cetane, i.e., the delay in the onset of combustion is reduced. The marketing of these additives as after-market products has effectively construed this to mean better, more complete combustion of diesel. I can find no data to support this premise.
What I did find is what looks to be an honest assessment from a fuel additives wholesaler, Lubrizol. Scroll down to check out the section on "Cetane Q&A's".

Lubrizol® 8090 Cetane Improver for Diesel Fuel - Lubrizol

EnerBurn directly enhances combustion efficiency through a catalytic effect - i.e., faster reaction at the same temperature and pressure with the catalyst than without. Pure and simple. The reaction, of course, is the combining of oxygen (from air) and hydrocarbons (from fuel) to produce heat, water, and CO2, all products of complete HC combustion. And less of the side reaction products of incomplete combustion (CO, unburned HC, and PM). This has been amply demonstrated through multiple controlled tests of fuel economy and emissions over many years. Even with all of these "proof of performance" tests the true skeptics still don't believe it. I have no problem with that.

 

[betterdiesel]

Cetane Q&As
What is a cetane improver?
It is an additive that raises cetane number.

What does a high cetane number indicate?
It indicates a shorter ignition delay and is regarded as more desirable than low cetane. The higher the number,
the shorter the delay.

What is cetane number?
It is a measurement of the length of time from fuel injection until the combustion process begins. It is not a measurement of fuel economy, power or combustion smoothness.

How is cetane measured?
A standard CRC laboratory engine test (run pursuant to ASTM D613) is used to measure cetane. The test requires a skilled operator and an engine that performs well.

What is ignition delay?
It is the time between the start of injection and when combustion begins (or when ignition occurs).

 

[betterdiesel]

Piper 1, after 30 years then you should know that engine oil goes from a clear amber to black within the 1st couple of weeks after an oil change because of soot contamination. Soot is hard particles of carbon. It is abrasive and causes metals to "scrub" or wear. That is why engine oil by-pass filters are becoming so popular - they are more effective in filtering out soot particles than standard oil filters. And this extends the engine life and increases the oil change interval. Smart engine owners know this and take measures to eliminate soot accumulation in engine oil by using either EnerBurn or a by-pass oil purifier alone or in combination. They have the oil analyzed periodically instead of changing it. They drain the oil only when the oil analysis flags a sample for high wear metals, high soot, high fuel, or low viscosity. They can invest in more expensive, better quality synthetic engine oils knowing that it will stay clean for an extended oil change interval allowing them to recoup the investment or get a good ROI. Owner operators ARE business owners, thus have a different mentality when it comes to engine maintenance than most fleet managers I've encountered.

 

[betterdiesel]

Treadmill, yes I am a sales person and I am also a scientist and an engineer and a product expert for fuel combustion catalysts and other types of fuel additives. End-user testimonials are not my favorite, but the truck transport industry seems to thrive on them. So, I oblige in sharing testimonials with the express permission of my customers. As the saying goes, "facts tell, stories sell". I wouldn't do this without the more "hard and fast" scientifically validated 3rd party test data that proves / backs up product claims. In the eyes of the FTC use of testimonials as the sole means of supporting product claims is a big "no-no". Best wishes!

 

[Turtle]

Just received this question from a prospective client

What a fortuitous, amazing coincidence!

Cetane number is, from my point of view anyway, pretty widely misunderstood.

It's not misunderstoood at all by most in the trucking industry who drive diesel vehicles, though.

Here is what is misunderstood - there is no relation between cetane and fuel economy or emissions regulations for EPA "critera air" pollutants which include "soot" or particulate matter (PM).

That's a carefully crafted, very narrow context. If you expand that to include EPA "criteria air" pollutans which include NOx emmissions, you'll have a very different statement.

The role of cetane improvers is to bring a poor batch of diesel back into spec with respect to the minimum specification for cetane, i.e., the delay in the onset of combustion is reduced.

It's not really a case of poor batches of diesel, as the overwhelming majority of diesel is distilled from crude at 38-42 cetane. Cetane improvers are used at the refinery and the distribution level to bring the cetane level up to government regulations (Canada, Europe, California, the eastern third of Texas, all require cetane above 50).

The marketing of these additives as after-market products has effectively construed this to mean better, more complete combustion of diesel. I can find no data to support this premise.

If you cannot find any data to support the premise that higher cetane results in a more complete combustion of diesel fuel, then it can only be because you have made no effort whatsoever to search for the data, because it's insanely easy to find. Even Wikipedia has a page on it, complete with PDF reference studies and articles that detail it. Cetane lowers the combustion temperature of diesel fuel, thus the combustion process starts earlier in the combustion cycle, giving diesel fuel longer time to burn within each cycle. As the fuel takes longer to burn completely, the less fuel needs to be injected for the same performance. This increases fuel economy because it decreases fuel consumption, and decreases soot and greenhouse gas emissions. And it's not even rocket science.

Even with all of these "proof of performance" tests the true skeptics still don't believe it. I have no problem with that.

Well, nobody that understands what ferrocene is and how it works in an engine is going to be skeptical of it. But trying to poopoo cetane as irrelevant in favor of a ferrocene product is just silly. And a little irresponsible.

That is why engine oil by-pass filters are becoming so popular - they are more effective in filtering out soot particles than standard oil filters.

Actually, engine oil bypass filters are becoming less and less popular, because they are no longer needed as much thanks to the newer engineered engine oils and the dispersants in the oil that keep the soot particles dispersed. These engine oils greatly reduce the related lubrication problems during the service interval of the oil, eliminating the need for external filtering.

Smart engine owners know this and take measures to eliminate soot accumulation in engine oil by using either EnerBurn or a by-pass oil purifier alone or in combination.

OK, that's about all of the EnerBurn commercials we have time for. Smart engine owners take care of their engines either by using EnerBurn, a bypass oil filter, or by simpy changing the oil and filter at the required interval.

Owner operators ARE business owners, thus have a different mentality when it comes to engine maintenance than most fleet managers I've encountered.

The vast majority of users on this site are, in fact, owner/operators and fleet owners, including, I should add, Piper1, who owns and operates his own truck. As for fleet managers, you would do well not to ascribe the characteristics and mentalities of general trucking fleet managers to those of the expediting industry. Expedite fleet managers are just as anal as owner/operators when it comes to maintenance, because they have to be.

If someone (here in these forums, not some random unnamed source) has a question about Enerburn, feel free to answer, with as much detail as you see fit. But just in case I haven't been clear enough, no more Enerburn commercials. n more backdoor cheerleading and calling people not-smart if they don't use Enerburn, and no more misleading statements about any of it. Thanks.

 

[piper1]

The soot gets into the oil when exhaust gases bypass the ring seal. The bearings are coated with engine oil laden with soot particles and that is what creates the physical wear.

So your additive fixes worn out rings? Mechanically sound engines have a VERY low amount of combustion gasses getting past the rings...and almost no exhaust as the pressure has dropped considerably compared to combustion.