Economics E.O Style

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
Early hours of this morning I found myself watching some program about the US Economy .... as far as I could make out (as I came partway through the program) the panel were made up of Economists.


Now bear with me cos this was at 3am this morning, so I can't remember everything that was discussed :p
But these are the points I do remember ....


This is not the time to be talking about reducing the deficit, but injecting more to get the economy moving


Raise inflation to 4%


The Stimulus was not big enough or advertised well


Get Corporates to fund infrastructure


Reducing the deficit in the short term is not the way to go. But have a plan in place for the mid to long term


:rolleyes:
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
left leaning liberal current admin endorsed economist...you want to understand whats going on, read Dr. Walter E. Williams.... LOL, just read the quote at the buttom of my post from him, it will quickly tell you how he thinks...:)
 

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
left leaning liberal current admin endorsed economist...you want to understand whats going on, read Dr. Walter E. Williams.... LOL, just read the quote at the buttom of my post from him, it will quickly tell you how he thinks...:)



Hmmm not sure I'm following you there Dennis :confused:


The discussion last night was about kick starting the economy
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
1st the country is broke..we are borrowing money from all over the world , we are printing money that only lowers the value of the dollar and creating inflation.

The fed is using our junk dollars to BUY OUR OWN DEBT...

And you can NOT print money and or SPEND your way out of debt...

The country is not collecting enough in taxes to cover the debt that the gov has created....we have reached our LEGAL CREDIT LIMIT, so the left simply wants to raise the limit...thats ok if you are a good risk and have controls in place to control spending...but again, they dont want to put controls in place or cut spending...just raise the limit and print more money....

The gov steals money from the citizens and then cries they need to raise tax rates all the time spending more then they bring in to begin with....

It would be great if we all could run our households and or businesses like that...but you'd go to jail if you tried to....
 

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
1st the country is broke..we are borrowing money from all over the world , we are printing money that only lowers the value of the dollar and creating inflation.

The fed is using our junk dollars to BUY OUR OWN DEBT...

And you can NOT print money and or SPEND your way out of debt...

The country is not collecting enough in taxes to cover the debt that the gov has created....we have reached our LEGAL CREDIT LIMIT, so the left simply wants to raise the limit...thats ok if you are a good risk and have controls in place to control spending...but again, they dont want to put controls in place or cut spending...just raise the limit and print more money....

The gov steals money from the citizens and then cries they need to raise tax rates all the time spending more then they bring in to begin with....

It would be great if we all could run our households and or businesses like that...but you'd go to jail if you tried to....



None of the Econmists agreed that there was an easy solution - they did all agree that this was not a sudden thing that has happened to the Economy.

Another thing they did agree on was unemployment needs to be tackled first and foremost and this takes money.

This was when they went onto to talk about Corporates funding infrastruture.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
None of the Econmists agreed that there was an easy solution - they did all agree that this was not a sudden thing that has happened to the Economy.

Another thing they did agree on was unemployment needs to be tackled first and foremost and this takes money.

This was when they went onto to talk about Corporates funding infrastruture.


Now WHY the the unemployment thingee take money? big business creates jobs NOT government...

And corporate pay for infrasture? well that is just plain stupid......the US corporate tax rate is one of the highest in the world....and throw in HC taxes to come.....we won't know where they relocated till the dust settles from the stampede to get out of here.....
 

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
Now WHY the the unemployment thingee take money? big business creates jobs NOT government...

And corporate pay for infrasture? well that is just plain stupid......the US corporate tax rate is one of the highest in the world....and throw in HC taxes to come.....we won't know where they relocated till the dust settles from the stampede to get out of here.....


Hey I am only repeating what was said on the program - its not my idea LOL :D


As I said they starting talking about Corporates because they are not holding onto their profits.

Maybe they need sweetners to start using some of that money to create jobs :rolleyes: Now thats my idea :p
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Hey I am only repeating what was said on the program - its not my idea LOL :D


As I said they starting talking about Corporates because they are not holding onto their profits.

Maybe they need sweetners to start using some of that money to create jobs :rolleyes: Now thats my idea :p

Just a hint....of the differences...

Canada cut its corporate-tax rate to 16.5% on Jan. 1, part of a decade-long campaign that some experts say is making the country one of the most cost-effective places to do business in the developed world.

US corporate tax...35%

Canada's Unemployment as of April 7.6%

US...9.7

Canada’s budget deficit for the last 11 months shrank by nearly a third, to 28.3 billion Canadian dollars, or $29.7 billion, from the year-ago period–boosted by strong economic growth and higher commodity prices, and providing a stark foil to the current budget and debt woes south of the border.


US's has more then doubled...

Now tell me....
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
no it didn't just start, but the idealogy of barry and his minions have used methods from the socialist rulebvook to grow government spending tha has never worked and won't now...they have spent more trying their "garbage ideals" then any admin prior and made things worst...

as for the corps taking over the funding of our "infrastructures"...lol... we going to force them to do that??? Why would they do that?? Businesses are in business to make money...not to create jobs...2nd the corps are sitting on buckets of money... they just aren't going to spend it until they have a clear idea on what barry is going to do to them on taxation....also as OVM said, our corp tax rate is the highest in the world...that cuts into profits...but barry wants to rise them higher...well unless its GE...

and as OVM said, the government can't create jobs...other then gov jobs which take tax dollars to pay for...and under barry and his minions they have created all kinds of those...but what is the return on those jobs as far as the ta base goes?? Think about that...
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
no it didn't just start, but the idealogy of barry and his minions have used methods from the socialist rulebvook to grow government spending tha has never worked and won't now...they have spent more trying their "garbage ideals" then any admin prior and made things worst...

as for the corps taking over the funding of our "infrastructures"...lol... we going to force them to do that??? Why would they do that?? Businesses are in business to make money...not to create jobs...2nd the corps are sitting on buckets of money... they just aren't going to spend it until they have a clear idea on what barry is going to do to them on taxation....also as OVM said, our corp tax rate is the highest in the world...that cuts into profits...but barry wants to rise them higher...well unless its GE...

and as OVM said, the government can't create jobs...other then gov jobs which take tax dollars to pay for...and under barry and his minions they have created all kinds of those...but what is the return on those jobs as far as the ta base goes?? Think about that...

LOL..now I just have to say...Canada...not bad for a socialist country......:p
 

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
no it didn't just start, but the idealogy of barry and his minions have used methods from the socialist rulebvook to grow government spending tha has never worked and won't now...they have spent more trying their "garbage ideals" then any admin prior and made things worst...

as for the corps taking over the funding of our "infrastructures"...lol... we going to force them to do that??? Why would they do that?? Businesses are in business to make money...not to create jobs...2nd the corps are sitting on buckets of money... they just aren't going to spend it until they have a clear idea on what barry is going to do to them on taxation....also as OVM said, our corp tax rate is the highest in the world...that cuts into profits...but barry wants to rise them higher...well unless its GE...

and as OVM said, the government can't create jobs...other then gov jobs which take tax dollars to pay for...and under barry and his minions they have created all kinds of those...but what is the return on those jobs as far as the ta base goes?? Think about that...



If businesses don't create jobs, as you have stated, then who does Dennis? :confused:
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
If businesses don't create jobs, as you have stated, then who does Dennis? :confused:

He got me on that statement as well....:confused:


businesses will create jobs, they will expand, will invest in upgrading...only if they see strong economic leadership from the WH...and there is none....they have to know there is a viable plan...a future.
 

Dakota

Veteran Expediter
As Dave Ramsey says
You can't spend more than you take in.

Maybe the Government, needs a "Total Money Makeover"

STOP SPENDING!!!!
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
they only create jobs when THEY have a need for more jobs..they make a product that is out sselling production, so they hire more people...but if they are out producing sales, the laypeople off and stop hiring...they don't keep people in jobs or create jobs just to do it...barry keeps qhining that they want to give corps "tax credits" to companies ti hire more people...what good are ta cuts when you have the expense of people that would be hired that are non productive when they can't sell the services or products they offer????

Companies create jobs out of a need, not to be charitable....
 

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
they only create jobs when THEY have a need for more jobs..they make a product that is out sselling production, so they hire more people...but if they are out producing sales, the laypeople off and stop hiring...they don't keep people in jobs or create jobs just to do it...barry keeps qhining that they want to give corps "tax credits" to companies ti hire more people...what good are ta cuts when you have the expense of people that would be hired that are non productive when they can't sell the services or products they offer????

Companies create jobs out of a need, not to be charitable....


You lost me again Dennis :eek:

:confused:
 

scottm4211

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
You lost me again Dennis :eek:

:confused:

mrbill_nooo.gif
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
they only create jobs when THEY have a need for more jobs..they make a product that is out sselling production, so they hire more people...but if they are out producing sales, the laypeople off and stop hiring...they don't keep people in jobs or create jobs just to do it...barry keeps qhining that they want to give corps "tax credits" to companies ti hire more people...what good are ta cuts when you have the expense of people that would be hired that are non productive when they can't sell the services or products they offer????

Companies create jobs out of a need, not to be charitable....

I kinda got the basic idea...you must be in a hurry or sumptin?;)
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Sue,
I think you saw the same thing I watched a bit of. But the explanation that is given is so far off that I can't stop laughing.

First thing is the economist on the panel subscribe to the Keynesian theory that government has to be involved with the economy to make it work - that is a very simplistic view of it (explained a bit more in the next paragraph). It worked to a small point during the depression when we had few choices and a lot of pressure for the government to be involved fixing what they messed up.

The fundamental idea is that the government will borrow the money to fund the projects to get the economy stable during the business cycle. When times are good, they pay the debt down with the revenue created by the taxes they imposed on the system but when times are bad, they borrow to stabilize the economy through programs that "stimulate" the economy - one program is construction projects, like roads D*ms and so on. The cycle continues in hopes that the more activity from the economy in the private sector will produce more tax revenue and hence pay down the debt.

WHAT it didn't take in account was the expansion of the social programs like Social Security which in itself would have been alright if left alone. Back in the early 60's Johnson needed something and with the tax rate being cut, he was convinced that ending poverty as we knew it was the right step, which gave us Medicare. He used the revenue projections for 1967 to justify the move to spend so much money they had at the time but by 1970, Social Security and the Great Society programs were bankrupt. Medicare killed the country, not Social Security but because Social Security has more programs where money is used, it has to be examined and changed drastically.

The second thing is that left or right, liberal or conservative, Barry or Bush, it doesn't frickn' matter because all political power that we have is seated in the big arena fight ring to fight to stay in power and the Keynesian economics that they hold so close to their hearts keeps them in power - it is a rather sick way of politics in our country. The funniest group in the political arena are the fiscal conservatives who wants to cut spending but than refuses to entertain the idea of eliminating social security and Medicare. They want to compromise while not forcing the issue of actual cuts. Everything proposed from them are band-aid approaches to the problem.

The third thing and very important is WE ARE NOT BROKE. What we have is a confidence problem tied with a spending problem. We should demand as citizens a cut across the board of 10% this year with no spending increases (which by the way is an automatic thing with our federal budget and has to be stopped) and again another 10% next year - no exceptions except military spending for soldiers. Everything, I MEAN everything should get a cut of 10%. The real investors in our country, the people, do not have confidence in the dollar and this is reflected by the inflated price of gold and the low interest rate on the fed's loans to the banks. Our treasuries, the vehicle that funds our budget, is giving 3% while the fed loans out money at .5% - it is backwards.

The fourth thing is many, including Williams, know what it takes and he among a few verbally express it. BUT on the other hand, within the community of economist, they won't go against the grain in their profession because of a fear of being an outcast. I spoken to a few and they say "off the record" a completely different thing than they publish. I trust their opinion because they have yet to be wrong.

Fifth, our government needs to cut spending first. Job growth can't be done with government involvement or "investments" into the economy but just the opposite, the less government, the more jobs. Case in point is the auto companies, the two domestic based companies got bailed out, but the jobs were reduced and no compromise was met with either the price of the products or the quality of the product which was two big problems. Instead a natural disaster affected their competition and they gained market share. It wasn't the government's involvement but outside forces that saved GM and Chrysler. Without government intervention, the job loses would have been the same regardless what the government and unions said because the assets and product lines had more value than the company as a whole.

Sixth, read this carefully;

BIG BUSINESS DOES NOT CREATE JOBS.

SMALL BUSINESS CREATES JOBS.

A fundamental mistake has been all the while that our country runs on GM and Chrysler, and their suppliers which is so far from the truth, it has to be repeated.

ON TOP of all of this, the corporations like say Pfizer, pay no FEDERAL taxes on their profits, even though they pay state taxes, the federal taxes are passed on to the consumer. So a small business would have an advantage if there is no federal taxes they need to worry about and this equates into jobs.

I hope that clears it up for you.
 

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
This was an Economist Panel Discussion so for now put Government and anything political aside ;)

The panel were agreeing upon a few points, though not one of them had an outright strategy for how it could be accomplished (well maybe that had, but they were not divulging)

They all agreed that unemployment had to be first and foremost resolved ……
Obvious next agreement Business’ have to expand and thus take on employee’s.
Suggestions from panelists were,
raising inflation,
Corporates getting involved in infrastructure,
Make exports more attractive etc

All Panelists agreed, now is not the time to try and reduce the deficit (in the short term).
Without money going into the economy how can the economy grow thus reducing unemployment?
Reducing unemployment benefits the economy – Housing markets starts moving, white goods start moving, people start spending again.

Vicious circle indeed …..

ppl don’t spend money+ Firms do not prosper = ppl lose their jobs

ppl lose their jobs + ppl do not spend money = Firms cannot prosper


How do you stimulate the Economy and reduce the deficit?

It certainly is a million (or trillion) dollar question thats for sure
 
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