Dr. Doom Speaks. Eyes on Jackson Hole

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Here is a link to a report of an interview with Nouriel Roubini a/k/a "Dr. Doom" of Roubini Global Economics. He correctly called the Great Recession and identified its causes well in advance.

While he has his critics, I like to include his views when thinking about the mix. Regardless of what you might think of the man himself or his projections, the factual points he makes in this interview about stimulus items are worthy of note.

Of greater interest to people reading the economic tea leaves will be this weekend's meeting of leading world bankers and economists at Jackson Hole, Wyoming. While it will produce the usual stream of headlines and sound bytes, the symposium also produces important papers presented by some of the participants. It takes some digging to read them but they can be very informative.

My pre-Jackson-Hole view: If the Bush and Obama stumuli worked at all, they worked only to delay the inevitable. The only way to clear the markets and return the economy to a healthy state is to let the people fail who should fail; namely, those people and institutions that extended themselves beyond all reason into debt and funny-money accounting.

Allowing them to fail will have a devastating impact on the economy but with the economy being more powerful than the Republicans, more powerful than the Democrats, and more powerful than the government, delaying the inevitable will only make things worse in the long run. Sadly, policy makers and lawmakers have taken huge steps and committed massive amounts of our nation's strength to doing just that...delay the inevitable.

We have seen and enjoyed a pickup in expedited freight but it is not a development I would trust. If you are thinking about going into debt to boost your expediting business, it may be OK to do, but only if you are prepared to survive a second period of negative economic growth (in expediter terms, slow freight at low rates).

I'm not saying a double dip recession is at hand. I do not know that it is. I am saying be prepared for the possibility. Don't let a few months of good freight lull you into a false sense of security. What you see today may not be what you get tomorrow.
 
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Streakn1

Veteran Expediter
With Obama only being in the Whitehouse a little less than two years, and based on our revenue since the beginning of January, 2010, it would appear the the Bush/Obama stimuli is working. At least for us. Suprisingly, we are enjoying our best gross revenue year thus far as compared to the last four years of running freight.

Granted 2008-2009 was slower than before, but since January 1ST, 2010 its as if someone opened the flood gates in our area of expedited freight. Hopefully it will continue. Our normally slow periods for the year thus far have stayed busier than usual. It would be nice for all of us if "Dr Doom" is wrong on this one.

Now I'm not saying that as a tax payer I'm happy with all of the tax dollars the government has so freely committed to bailouts and stimulus. But if that has had a positive and hopefully long term effect on my earning abilities, well....

As one of many examples:
Dspt'd yesterday to pick up partial load in Michigan. Then pick up additional load in Kansas. Deliver add. load to Utah and original load to Washington state. Total miles of run is 2950. Total gross revenue for us $6270.00 over a 3.5 day period with a fuel cost of approximately $1300.00 to complete the run. At $2.12/ml for all miles to us, plus only having to strap and tarp the load with no other "special requirements" on the load I'd say the stimulus plan is working.

We are very thankful that prior events with a previous carrier led us in the direction it did before the recession. By disposing of a costly reefer trailer ie: tl pymts, lease commisions, reefer/T-val maint cost, reefer fuel and purchasing a deck trailer at 25% of the monthly trailer cost as compared to the reefer trailer, we were able to reduce our overhead greatly. Then by staying within a nitche market area of freight were there is minimal competition, we were able to keep the truck moving regularly, even during the worst of the recession. We went with a carrier that rather than cave to the customer's cries for reduced rates, instead stood their ground to insure their contractors would continue to profit. In specialized freight, if the customer TRUELY understands the quality of service you and your carrier provide them, then they will know you are worth what they pay. Even in hard times.

Our stategy has worked for us and hopefully so will our governments!
 
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layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I doubt if the stimuli have had all that much to do with it. Much of that money has yet to work it's way into the economy. The long term negative affects of the massive debt etc are just now beginning to be seen. It may get FAR FAR worse before things improve.
 

mrgoodtude

Not a Member
Good money after bad or give a man a fish Vs teach him how to fish..either or both apply at this juncture.
This has been done before and I didn't find Nancy Pelosi so attractive I would jump on the "right train"...:p
ooop's
never mind
 
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Vinnie T

Seasoned Expediter
The trucks that are on the road now is all that there is going to be for a long time because of the credit crunch. There are trucks sitting in lots now because there are not enough drivers, or should I say not enough drivers that want to get off the unemployment extention and work for a living.

There are some road bumps ahead for sure, but hopefully it won't affect the trucking industry as hard as it did last time. I dont think it's all much busier right now, it just seems that way because there is a lot less trucks on the road then before the economy tanked.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I don't think the credit is the issue, credit can be had but people are expecting low rates. I don't think there is a driver shortage either by any means but I think the problem is people are still expecting something for nothing.

We heard this issue that freight rates climbed after a mass exodus of owners/drivers in the past year and now we keep hearing that the "stimulus" package caused it but some who make a living at watching this industry say otherwise. They seem to think all this work that the trucking industry has received has to do with 2011, taxes and the ambiguity of this administration and congress. Companies are rushing to get things done and as one of them seems to point out, freight is not always sitting on the docks looking for a truck as it did in the past. They seem to claim that the rate increase have to do with both the lack of coverage and the adjustment of the rates as they now are catching up to costs. Furthermore they warn that 2011 will be worst, which I hope they are wrong.

One of them pointed out that the recruiting of drivers on the whole will put the industry back into the situation they were in 2 years ago, a glut of drivers and a revolving door. This person seems to think that the parity was met around last quarter 2009 and should be maintained. They also discount the CSA 2010 as an effective tool to reduce the ranks in the driver pool, citing the fact that it will be only as effective as the enforcement of the program and with their stops and starts and the fits within the FMCSA itself, it maybe a problem to enforce all of it.

BUT to my amazement, Phil seems to echo some of what I said in the past. The person he mentions was not the only one to predict the demise of the economy, even some going back into the 90's as we were warned with the tech bubble bursting.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
Streakin... you ever stop to think what it is that's making you so profitable right now? Could it be all of those O/Os who have lost their trucks; and now the number of available trucks are down the tubes? If your market will only bear 150 trucks; and it was supporting 200; then 100 go under, then you're gonna have a good day.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
The aircraft business has been booming for over 10 yrs. now...
comparing apples to oranges here, engines and landing gear...are way behind..Obama/Bush has NOTHING to do with this part of Steakin's business...
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
I'm sure there were some who do Streakin's work, who were put out of business. It's hard to believe there was anything left totally standing in the wake of this DEpression.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
I'm sure there were some who do Streakin's work, who were put out of business. It's hard to believe there was anything left totally standing in the wake of this DEpression.

Areospace is still going strong...A.O.G. parts, replacement/loaner engines...the whole whack...plus we have 2 wars going on....1 replacement set of turbine blades takes months to replace for just 1 engine...and since they aren't building a lot of planes the airlines are doing a lot of rebuilding and stretching old the life of the old ones...like we do in this biz....just drop in a new engine vs a new truck....
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Areospace is still going strong...A.O.G. parts, replacement/loaner engines...the whole whack...plus we have 2 wars going on....1 replacement set of turbine blades takes months to replace for just 1 engine...and since they aren't building a lot of planes the airlines are doing a lot of rebuilding and stretching old the life of the old ones...like we do in this biz....just drop in a new engine vs a new truck....

Only one war, small one at that, two theaters. Not even putting in that much effort for that matter. Now, with Korea seemingly heating up, we might have two. Seems to be a large build up of our presence there going on. Lots of building and shoring up of the DMZ and rather large increases of troop strengths as well.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Only one war, small one at that, two theaters. Not even putting in that much effort for that matter. Now, with Korea seemingly heating up, we might have two. Seems to be a large build up of our presence there going on. Lots of building and shoring up of the DMZ and rather large increases of troop strengths as well.

I meant there is still a lot of flying missions going on....a lot of maintenance and replacing parts...
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Four weeks ago I had a really crappy week. But in the three weeks since, it's been way better than normal. Not only that, but so far this year has been better for me than this time last year. The only conclusion that can be reached from that is that the Obama Stimulus Plan is working, since there are no other factors involved whatsoever.

Hey, hey, hey! Stop it! Before you say a word, do not make fun of retarded people. We don't do that here.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Four weeks ago I had a really crappy week. But in the three weeks since, it's been way better than normal. Not only that, but so far this year has been better for me than this time last year. The only conclusion that can be reached from that is that the Obama Stimulus Plan is working, since there are no other factors involved whatsoever.

Hey, hey, hey! Stop it! Before you say a word, do not make fun of retarded people. We don't do that here.

Whew!! Good thing you added that final disclaimer. I was being to think that you are suffering from shell rot or something!!
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Whew!! Good thing you added that final disclaimer. I was being to think that you are suffering from shell rot or something!!
Well, I have that, too. :D

I'm just pointing out the fallacy of illusory correlations (and hindsight bias), where something happens and people look for a quick and easy reason for it, of seeing the relationship one expects in a set of data or an event even when no such relationship exists. Religion is just chocked full of illusory correlations, where things happen and conclusions are quickly and easily drawn where no correlation exists. Many beliefs and hypotheses are tested and confirmed in this manner, where people search for evidence that confirms their belief of hypothesis. For example, people who already hate Muslims won't be looking for reasons to not hate them, but will only be interested in finding evidence to support their hate.

I meet someone from Canada and find them to be nice and helpful. I then meet someone else from Canada and find them to also be nice and helpful. Conclusion, all Canadians are nice and helpful. Not only that, but any time I meet someone nice, I can safely assume they are from Canada.

It always rains when you wash the truck. (implying that washing the truck causes it to rain). Well, no, it doesn't. You just remember it more vividly when it does, but it often rains when you don't wash the truck.

You think of a song and it comes on the radio. Ta-da! Well, how many times have you thought of that song and it didn't come on the radio? Whoops.

A full moon causes abnormal behavior. No it doesn't.

Giving a child sugar causes hyperactivity. No it doesn't.

The phone always rings when you are in the shower. No it doesn't.

Order a meal and you'll get a load offer. OK, that one is true.

Expediting, from the driver's point of view, is practically built on illusory correlations. Whatever happens out here, with an almost always incomplete set of facts with which to draw any type of valid conclusion, immediate conclusions are drawn.

The spurious or illusory correlation fallacy is not widely recognized by most people, but its occurrence is pervasive and widespread.

Somebody once went to a good deal of trouble to find out if cigarette smokers make lower college grades than nonsmokers. It turned out that they did. Conclusion: Smoking dulls minds. If you don't smoke you'll get better grades, so stop smoking.

Fact is, good and bad grades are almost certainly a result of some third factor, like, could it be that the sociable sort of fellow who takes his books less than seriously is also likely to smoke? Or is there a clue in the fact that somebody once established a correlation between extroversion and low grades which showed a much closer relationship apparently than the one between grades and intelligence? Maybe extroverts smoke more than introverts. The point is that when there are many reasonable explanations, you are hardly entitled to pick and choose the one that suits your belief, and then insist on it. But many people do. All the time. And they stick to it. They believe it.
 

Streakn1

Veteran Expediter
Streakin... you ever stop to think what it is that's making you so profitable right now? Could it be all of those O/Os who have lost their trucks; and now the number of available trucks are down the tubes? If your market will only bear 150 trucks; and it was supporting 200; then 100 go under, then you're gonna have a good day.

No I don't think its the result of all those O/Os that lost their trucks. I've not heard of any in what we do loosing their trucks. Mostly its been leaving for retirement, money elsewhere when things got slow, health issues, etc. Of course as teams left, more freight became availible for the remaining trucks.
 
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