Detention Time

[Humble2drive]

I would like to know how different Carriers and drivers handle this situation:

If you accept a load and arrive to pick-up on time how long are you obligated to wait before you can decide not to do the load?

This question is directed at teams since a solo would run out of hours if they actually stayed on duty.

We recently waited 10 hours which pushed the delivery into a different day which had an impact on our business.

 

[piper1]

Once you surpass the "free time" your carrier gives the customer then I would call in and say "am I getting detention time?" and if the answer is yes I would stay put...if I leave on my own decision I would fully expect to forfeit all the detention money paid to me so I would need a darn good reason to leave (not to mention IMHO this is a service failure if your carrier can't cover it when you leave). If I was a team, why not stay and get paid to sit, great fuel mileage that way.

Bottom line, once I accept the load, I am obligated to do it if my carrier pays me what they contractually owe me to wait.

 

[Humble2drive]

Once you surpass the "free time" your carrier gives the customer then I would call in and say "am I getting detention time?" and if the answer is yes I would stay put...if I leave on my own decision I would fully expect to forfeit all the detention money paid to me so I would need a darn good reason to leave (not to mention IMHO this is a service failure if your carrier can't cover it when you leave). If I was a team, why not stay and get paid to sit, great fuel mileage that way.

Bottom line, once I accept the load, I am obligated to do it if my carrier pays me what they contractually owe me to wait.

Thanks
I assume you are solo? When you are waiting there at the dock and the shipper keeps telling you "it will be ready soon" are you able to log this time as Off Duty?
Oh, and what does IMHO mean? People text that to me all the time and I still don't have a clue.

 

[RLENT]

Oh, and what does IMHO mean? People text that to me all the time and I still don't have a clue.

In My Humble Opinion

 

[Jefferson3000]

We recently waited 10 hours which pushed the delivery into a different day which had an impact on our business.

I must agree with Piper. Unless there are adverse circumstances by which your carrier pulls the plug, once you commit, you are FIRMLY committed. Now, if you are not able to complete it as HOS allows and a swap is required, then such is life. Normally, I would inform my customer of the issue of the delivery time being forced back due to the freight not being ready.

As a carrier, yes I would be paying you detention. However, if you abandon the customer, you would forfeit detention, dry run, and would most likely be getting a "services no longer required" letter, effective immediately. YOUR actions have an impact on your carrier's business.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

What I don't agree on is Express-1 and maybe others have is D-time on both ends...as in giving 1 hour before pay starts...so on a pro bill you could have 2 hours unpaid...or with NLM loads 4 hours unpaid...

My last carrier totaled D time on the pro bill itself....once you did the FREE hour you were paid for the rest of the delays...

So you wait 45 minutes past your protect time at a consignee and then you wait another 45 to get unloaded...total 90 minutes subtract the FREE 60 minutes and you'd get paid for 30 minutes...

 

[Darmstadter]

One other thing to keep in mind (hopefully it won't come into play) is if your carrier has a cap or maximum detention time. Some NLM customers have a maximum detention charge of $250.
Then the shipper realizes that it's only $75 to just cancel/dry run the load. If your're at a shipper for 10 hours and they call the load off---make sure that you're getting the detention time and not just a dry run charge.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

It is amazing how the little details of these rules are not told to us at orientation....

 

[greg334]

How is it free time? You are still loaded or wait to be loaded and that is part of the work. If the company takes their time at either end, then it is not expedited freight but LTL.

As to Humble's questions.

How long depends on how the load works out, if it takes me 3 hours to get there and there is a three hour delay, I give the agent an option to find someone else or let me sit on it through my reset. Teams don't have that problem because they can run 22 hours of drive time a day and that extra 2 hours of on duty time can be filled with load checks.

No it is not off duty time. It is on duty or sleeper berth time which is BS. This is where a split hours needs to happen, allow the driver to split off two hour chunks in the sleeper so not to run out of hours. I have heard twice with EOB logging systems it will force shippers to change their habits but I don't see that happening with the majority of trucking still done by big companies who can move resources around - yes right US express is going to tell Cat that they better have that trailer loaded at 5am or else they can find someone else to ship their stuff.

 

[Wingnut]

Detention is determined on a customer-to customer basis. The expedite companies do NOT always charge the compaies for detention...it all depends on how their contracts are set up. Sometimes it's set up that the detention starts after the first hour, or 2 hours, I've even had a situation where we had to give up the first 3 hours, and of course, some don't get socked detention at all. It's best to immediately contact dispatch after the first hour to find out if you're getting detention and also ask how many hours do you have to 'donate' before detention starts.
I can tell you this: if you accept a load then sometime during that load, you decide that you, for whatever reason, decide that you no longer want it, the company WILL hold it against you and could possibly pull your contract. Once you accept the load, you are under obligation to complete the load. Obviously, being a SOLO driver and running out of legal hours is a different ball game BUT I'm basically referring to TEAMS. As a SOLO, the company will transfer the freight IF you run out of legal hours to finish the delivery. If you, as a TEAM, decide that you had enough of sitting at the shipper waiting to get loaded, so you want to get off the load, this is a different ball game and the carrier could pull your contract, shut you down for a certain amount of time, and do more. This will also go onto your record with that carrier and would hurt your reputation and possibly your career.
I've been in a situation where we sat at the shipper for over 6 hours and wasn't getting any detention. Even though I was mad as a wet hen, there was nothing I could do about it except to suck it up and shut up. Why? Because I made a commitment once I accepted that load and I was under full obligation to see it thru from beginning to end...no matter what happened and no matter how I felt. I, being me, kept a notebook that I called my "NO WAY IN HECK" book in which I kpet a list of customers that I would never haul freight for again...and not getting detention put this customer in that category.

 

[Jefferson3000]

OVM,

As a carrier, I like your idea of how to handle detention. As with any contract business, we have some customers who are handled one way and some another, as to billing. I had one customer TELL me to start charging detention after 15 minutes, which to me makes sense for vans especially. Normally, our detention bleeds over into the unloading process with trucks. Most courier services charge something after the first 10 or 15 minutes. They may be leap-frogging several small deliveries across town, and don't want to get delayed, just because the receiver is having a bad day.

Side note: I had a discussion with a dispatcher from a certain customer with big felines on the sides of their truck. He jokingly informed me that they no longer pay detention at all. I jokingly told him that our driver was pulling over to shove his pallet off the back of our truck onto the side of the road. We had a nice, uncomfortable laugh over that one.

 

[LDB]

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.

A contract is composed of an offer, an acceptance, and consideration.

Every time you say yes via QC or on the phone you've entered into a contract. So has your carrier. Your carrier of course tilts it to their benefit on things like FSC. That way when Acme Widgets decides later on to pay 20cpm instead of 30cpm like they agreed to when they booked the load the carrier can screw you instead of standing up to Acme Widgets. But I digress. The main point is that every run you accept is a contract and as others have pointed out if you do not complete the run you have breached a contract.

Detention time is spelled out in your written contract with your carrier, or at least it should be. If your contract doesn't spell it out you need a better contract.

OVM, be careful what you wish for and be careful about giving bad ideas to carriers. Two hours unpaid at the shipper and two hours unpaid at the consignee is better than four hours cumulative unpaid per run. Now, if the total required is more reasonable, it's better if it's cumulative between shipper and consignee, i.e. if detention is after 2 hours and you are held up 90 minutes at the shipper and 90 minutes at the consignee you at least get paid for 1 hour.

 

[piper1]

We had a nice, uncomfortable laugh over that one.

Ahhh yes..that odd cringe laugh when really nothing is funny.

Thanks Jeff, I had a real good laugh (comfortable) when I read that one!

 

[youngsamuel]

Thanks
I assume you are solo? When you are waiting there at the dock and the shipper keeps telling you "it will be ready soon" are you able to log this time as Off Duty?
Oh, and what does IMHO mean? People text that to me all the time and I still don't have a clue.

You are able to log off-duty time at a shipper provided the following rules are adhered to.
B-6. How would "waiting time" at a terminal, plant, or port be logged?
"Waiting time" at a terminal, plant, or port may be recorded as off-duty, sleeper berth, or on duty/not driving, depending on specific circumstances.

For "waiting time" to be off-duty, the following off-duty conditions must be met:

1.The driver must be relieved of all duty and responsibility for the care and custody of the vehicle, its accessories, and any cargo or passengers it may be carrying.
2.During the stop, and for the duration of the stop, the driver must be at liberty to pursue activities of his/her own choosing and to leave the premises where the vehicle is situated.
This is according to the FMCSA HOS rule B-6

 

[Slo-Ride]

You are able to log off-duty time at a shipper provided the following rules are adhered to.
B-6. How would "waiting time" at a terminal, plant, or port be logged?
"Waiting time" at a terminal, plant, or port may be recorded as off-duty, sleeper berth, or on duty/not driving, depending on specific circumstances.

For "waiting time" to be off-duty, the following off-duty conditions must be met:

1.The driver must be relieved of all duty and responsibility for the care and custody of the vehicle, its accessories, and any cargo or passengers it may be carrying.
2.During the stop, and for the duration of the stop, the driver must be at liberty to pursue activities of his/her own choosing and to leave the premises where the vehicle is situated.
This is according to the FMCSA HOS rule B-6

This does nothing to stop your 14 hour clock tho..Does it?

 

[geo]

with ceva in a van d time starts at 31 mins
and they charge even for 5 mins over
but before you leave always call the dispatcher and they make the decision as what is to be done as this will protect you

never make a decision on your own always let your dispatcher

always write down the time you pull up to gate
and every half hour call and keep the dispatcher up to date
as this will protect the d time

ex going on a military base when you pull in line to go thru truck control write time down as it may take a 1/2 hour to get thru the gate and drive to bldg you will be deliving at

 

[youngsamuel]

I am not sure. I have a buddy who drives a TT and he mentioned about logging off duty time and our call was ended before I could ask that question. I don't see the point in logging off duty. Once you start the clock even if you are on duty for 10 minutes the clock has to reset for 10 hours. Correct? Seems silly to log off duty and it not affect the 14 hours.

 

[jaminjim]

I am not sure. I have a buddy who drives a TT and he mentioned about logging off duty time and our call was ended before I could ask that question. I don't see the point in logging off duty. Once you start the clock even if you are on duty for 10 minutes the clock has to reset for 10 hours. Correct? Seems silly to log off duty and it not affect the 14 hours.

You would log sleeper birth so that you could protect your 70 hours.
Also you never know when that 10 or 15 minutes might turn into 5 hours. The old saying is to log it as you do it applies.

 

[youngsamuel]

This is true

 

[Moot]

That way when Acme Widgets decides later on to pay 20cpm instead of 30cpm like they agreed to when they booked the load the carrier can screw you instead of standing up to Acme Widgets. But I digress.

Not only did you um, ah digress, but you ummm used a..ah bad word. Tender young minds may um,...chance upon this, ah...vulgar reference to um...........sexual intercourse.

Perhaps a uh, more appropriate word would be bolt. But um, ah using that particular term could be construed as carrier specific which opens a, um... another can of worms, um... so to speak. Um, ah... more specifically, ah...actually, um... what forum this post should be, ah, moved to. Um, the Bolt Forum, actually, um since Bolt was referenced.

The word nail or um, better Velcro™ could be substituted for screw. Of course the most bestest and versatile word in the English language (used as a verb, noun or adjective) would be, um... fùck.

Oops, I did way more than just um, digress. I guess I can um...ah kiss my future career as an, um, NPR host goodbye, actually.