truckerron
Expert Expediter
WHAT PECENT OF YOUR MILES IN A YEAR ARE DEAD HEAD I WAS TALKING TO A COMPANY ABOUT HAULING TRAVEL TRAILERS THEY SAID ABOUT 40% DEADHEAD DO YOU DO THAT MUCH IN YOUR LINE OF FREIGHT THANKS
DEAD HEAD
- Thread starter truckerron
- Start date
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
Express-1 and Panther both said the average is 20-30%, but to count on up to 40%. I've been getting an average of 13% lately. It all depends on who you run with and the length of the runs.
Some companies specialize in local or regional freight. So if they get something from Detroit to Atlanta, for example, they expect you to dh back to Northern Ohio, at the least. And that's with no pay.
"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know." - Kansas
Some companies specialize in local or regional freight. So if they get something from Detroit to Atlanta, for example, they expect you to dh back to Northern Ohio, at the least. And that's with no pay.
"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know." - Kansas
I'd figure trailer deliveries at 50% deadhead. You take it and unhook from it and then go back for the next one. If you're lucky and pull one back for warranty or whatever and get paid that's a bonus but not expected. I'm not sure how you'd get over 50% dh unless you are sightseeing or something since the distance should be the same there and back.
Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
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Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
Bugsy Siegel
Seasoned Expediter
Holy smoke, even 40% DH seems excessive. How the heck can you make any money if you spend that much time driving without a load?
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
You've heard the horror stories of 200 mi dh for 250 loaded, or worse. Some of those, coupled with dh to express centers 200 miles away from the drop, can add up to 40% in a hurry.
"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know." - Kansas
"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know." - Kansas
When we receive a load offer we figure dead head in with the loaded miles and then make sure the load pays enough for all miles. One thing we also keep in mind is while on the deadhead miles you are not using as much fuel as you will loaded. We look at the bottom line once again if the load pays enough take it.
Like others have said, it really depends on the company you are with. With some you'll have almost insane deadhead percentages, like if you only have outbound freight and are always deadheading back to get another load. That's gonna be at least 50%, assuming that you occasionally go home or drive someplace besides front point A to point B and back again.
If you are with an expedite company with a large presence, like Panther or FECC, you should expect somewhere around 25% to 30% deadhead, which includes paid and unpaid deadhead, and any unaccounted for miles (depending on the terminology you choose to use). I use my van for personal stuff, not a lot, but it's there, and it's working out that just about a third of all of the miles I put on the van are unloaded miles.
Some people will deadhead at the drop of a hat, immediately tossing out the deadhead miles as a factor because they are heading for another load, and loaded miles is all that matters. That's actually an attitude that many expediting companies would like you to adopt, and it's one that I heard pounded hard, albeit subtly, at an orientation recently. And it's working, to a degree. I've heard drivers who have come out of that orientation, new and old timers alike, say things like they never worry about deadhead miles, that they only look at the loaded miles.
These are the drivers I worry about, actually (van drivers, mostly, obviously). They are the ones who will deadhead without a second thought, and will take a load regardless of their state of rest and sleep. They trade sleep for deadhead hours, just to get a load. These are drivers who are working much harder for their money, but with no more money to show for it, really.
I talked with a driver 2 or 3 weeks ago who went on and on about not worrying about deadhead miles, that loaded was what mattered. We did some figuring and it opened his eyes. Over the last 8 weeks he's average 1300 miles per week loaded, while at the same time averaging a little under 800 miles a week as unpaid miles. That's 60%. He rarely uses his van for personal stuff, but he does go home every weekend. He no longer wonders why he doesn't seem to make as much money as he thinks he should.
I try to look at the overall big picture when it comes to deadhead, rather than matching up deadhead with a particular load. I'll look at a load and if it's significantly more than 25% or 30% deadhead, I want to determine not if that particular deadhead is profitable on that particular load, but will it get me to a place that will get me another load, or will it get me to a place that's just gonna require even more deadhead to get to the next load.
I also figure deadhead as all miles driven from last delivery to the next pickup (much to the chagrin of many a Panther dispatcher hehe). I've just driven 150 miles from my last delivery to where I'm sitting now. If my next load offer is for 150 miles deadhead for 500 loaded, in reality it's 300 miles for 500 loaded, which is 60% deadhead, but if it takes me to a place where my next load is likely to be little or no deadhead, then it all evens out in the long run.
I'm running 25% to 30% deadhead, and I'm averaging 2300 miles a week. My actual loaded miles per week when I'm in service is a little higher than that, tho. When I figure my weekly average miles, I include days and weeks where I'm out of service in the equation. My annual goal is 120,000 miles, and that, divided by 52 weeks, whether I'm working or not, comes out to 2308 miles per week. If I take 2 or 4 weeks off a year, vacations, repairs, whatever, that means that when I'm actually working I need to get between 2400-2500 miles a week to make my goal. I've had 4000 mile weeks and I've had 800 mile weeks, but so far I've always been within 10% of my goal every year. And usually the 10% difference, above or below, can be traced back to in increase or decrease in my deadhead miles.
They key is to keep your availability high, be willing to sit for a few days instead of doing a long deadhead when in areas where the next load is likely to be a really good one (like Laredo), but don't sit for a few days in an area where your next load is likely to be a short one (like Nashville). Use deadhead to your advantage, instead of either dismissing it entirely or viewing it as a necessary evil.
OK, so I can ramble. But maybe someone can get some use out of my ramblings.
If you are with an expedite company with a large presence, like Panther or FECC, you should expect somewhere around 25% to 30% deadhead, which includes paid and unpaid deadhead, and any unaccounted for miles (depending on the terminology you choose to use). I use my van for personal stuff, not a lot, but it's there, and it's working out that just about a third of all of the miles I put on the van are unloaded miles.
Some people will deadhead at the drop of a hat, immediately tossing out the deadhead miles as a factor because they are heading for another load, and loaded miles is all that matters. That's actually an attitude that many expediting companies would like you to adopt, and it's one that I heard pounded hard, albeit subtly, at an orientation recently. And it's working, to a degree. I've heard drivers who have come out of that orientation, new and old timers alike, say things like they never worry about deadhead miles, that they only look at the loaded miles.
These are the drivers I worry about, actually (van drivers, mostly, obviously). They are the ones who will deadhead without a second thought, and will take a load regardless of their state of rest and sleep. They trade sleep for deadhead hours, just to get a load. These are drivers who are working much harder for their money, but with no more money to show for it, really.
I talked with a driver 2 or 3 weeks ago who went on and on about not worrying about deadhead miles, that loaded was what mattered. We did some figuring and it opened his eyes. Over the last 8 weeks he's average 1300 miles per week loaded, while at the same time averaging a little under 800 miles a week as unpaid miles. That's 60%. He rarely uses his van for personal stuff, but he does go home every weekend. He no longer wonders why he doesn't seem to make as much money as he thinks he should.
I try to look at the overall big picture when it comes to deadhead, rather than matching up deadhead with a particular load. I'll look at a load and if it's significantly more than 25% or 30% deadhead, I want to determine not if that particular deadhead is profitable on that particular load, but will it get me to a place that will get me another load, or will it get me to a place that's just gonna require even more deadhead to get to the next load.
I also figure deadhead as all miles driven from last delivery to the next pickup (much to the chagrin of many a Panther dispatcher hehe). I've just driven 150 miles from my last delivery to where I'm sitting now. If my next load offer is for 150 miles deadhead for 500 loaded, in reality it's 300 miles for 500 loaded, which is 60% deadhead, but if it takes me to a place where my next load is likely to be little or no deadhead, then it all evens out in the long run.
I'm running 25% to 30% deadhead, and I'm averaging 2300 miles a week. My actual loaded miles per week when I'm in service is a little higher than that, tho. When I figure my weekly average miles, I include days and weeks where I'm out of service in the equation. My annual goal is 120,000 miles, and that, divided by 52 weeks, whether I'm working or not, comes out to 2308 miles per week. If I take 2 or 4 weeks off a year, vacations, repairs, whatever, that means that when I'm actually working I need to get between 2400-2500 miles a week to make my goal. I've had 4000 mile weeks and I've had 800 mile weeks, but so far I've always been within 10% of my goal every year. And usually the 10% difference, above or below, can be traced back to in increase or decrease in my deadhead miles.
They key is to keep your availability high, be willing to sit for a few days instead of doing a long deadhead when in areas where the next load is likely to be a really good one (like Laredo), but don't sit for a few days in an area where your next load is likely to be a short one (like Nashville). Use deadhead to your advantage, instead of either dismissing it entirely or viewing it as a necessary evil.
OK, so I can ramble. But maybe someone can get some use out of my ramblings.
Bugsy Siegel
Seasoned Expediter
>When we receive a load offer we figure dead head in with the
>loaded miles and then make sure the load pays enough for all
>miles. One thing we also keep in mind is while on the
>deadhead miles you are not using as much fuel as you will
>loaded. We look at the bottom line once again if the load
>pays enough take it.
How much variation is there in mileage between loaded and unloaded?
Is there a maximum percentage of DH miles in a load that you will accept? For example, say, no more than 25% of total miles in a load of less than 250 miles can be deadhead, before the load is no longer worth the trouble?
Thanks for the info!!!
Bugsy
>loaded miles and then make sure the load pays enough for all
>miles. One thing we also keep in mind is while on the
>deadhead miles you are not using as much fuel as you will
>loaded. We look at the bottom line once again if the load
>pays enough take it.
How much variation is there in mileage between loaded and unloaded?
Is there a maximum percentage of DH miles in a load that you will accept? For example, say, no more than 25% of total miles in a load of less than 250 miles can be deadhead, before the load is no longer worth the trouble?
Thanks for the info!!!
Bugsy
We do not care how many miles we dead head as long as the load pays enough. This is a simple way to look at the load offer. If the dh is 200 miles and the load is only 100 miles but the load pays 300.00 why not take it? If we dead head 300 miles to pick up a load weighing 12,000lbs going 100 miles and the load pays above our minimum then we figure we have a bonus of 300 miles without 12,000lbs. We also have had load picks up 10 miles away going 500 miles but does not pay enough to take the load so we turn it down.
Yeah, it's definitely different on how you have to consider the deadhead when you get paid a percentage of the load. It's a little more cut and dry as to whether the load is worth it or not. Either the load pays enough, or it doesn't. When you get paid by the mile, deadhead per-load has to be looked at differently, within a larger picture, using past and potential future loads as part of it. The mistake pay-per-mile drivers often make is making a decision to take a load or not based on deadhead for that load, when in reality it's deadhead over time that makes a difference between profit and loss.
Jefferson3000
Expert Expediter
It's not an issue of how much is deadhead. I run air freight P/u and delivery. Most of the times when I run a long hotshot, I deadhead back, at least into the normal delivery area. However, I probably average twice as much per loaded mile in a cargo van as most expedite companies pay a van per mile. So it's all relative to your freight situation. Hauling travel trailers, they might have it figured in that you would deadhead back to your home. Know your loaded mile, know how much deadhead to expect, and your cost per mile before you just give up on any opportunities.
Drive Safe!
Jeff
Drive Safe!
Jeff
chuckwagon
Seasoned Expediter
I know what I like to get per mile and if I can still get near or at that rate including the dead head miles I will take it.
So say if I want $1.65 per mile and if the dh is 200 miles, the rest of the trip is 800 miles and it pays me $1650 I will take it. But if it only pays for the 800 miles or $1320.00 I would factor in some other issues.
Like, where is it taking me, have I been sitting, do I just need some time off, etc.
(MILES AND RATES ARE FOR EXAMPLE ONLY)
So say if I want $1.65 per mile and if the dh is 200 miles, the rest of the trip is 800 miles and it pays me $1650 I will take it. But if it only pays for the 800 miles or $1320.00 I would factor in some other issues.
Like, where is it taking me, have I been sitting, do I just need some time off, etc.
(MILES AND RATES ARE FOR EXAMPLE ONLY)
We find it best to not consider deadhead and loaded miles as distinct items, but to consider the run as a whole. If you dh 100 miles to pick up freight and deliver the freight 400 miles away, it is a 500 mile run. If you dh 400 miles to pick up freight and deliver the freight 100 miles away, it is also a 500 mile run. It makes absolutely no difference what the rate paid is for dh or loaded miles. The number that matters is the pay you receive for the entire run.
If pay for the above two runs was $500 or $1.00 per mile for all miles, we would probably decline the load. If it was $750 or $1.50 per mile for all miles, we would probably accept the load.
This approach leads to load acceptance decisions that leave some drivers scratching their heads, but the all-miles numbers make perfect sense and provide profitable runs.
Several times we have deadheaded a few hundred miles to do runs that are less than a hundred miles loaded. Twice in the last few months, we have deadheaded over 1,000 miles to pick up freight. It's not about the amount of deadhead you do. It's about the amount of money you make.
If pay for the above two runs was $500 or $1.00 per mile for all miles, we would probably decline the load. If it was $750 or $1.50 per mile for all miles, we would probably accept the load.
This approach leads to load acceptance decisions that leave some drivers scratching their heads, but the all-miles numbers make perfect sense and provide profitable runs.
Several times we have deadheaded a few hundred miles to do runs that are less than a hundred miles loaded. Twice in the last few months, we have deadheaded over 1,000 miles to pick up freight. It's not about the amount of deadhead you do. It's about the amount of money you make.
truckerron
Expert Expediter
thanks for the replys
Broompilot
Veteran Expediter
So if you DH a thousand miles, how long or better yet HOW MUCH PER TOTAL MILE did you get? Thats not only alot of miles but days behind the wheel.
I have my # per mile with DH but a thousand, only out West cause of the large miles out there and the potential large miles comming back.
I have my # per mile with DH but a thousand, only out West cause of the large miles out there and the potential large miles comming back.
We have a set minimum per-mile rate for all miles for any run we do. With the two runs mentioned above, where the deahdead was over 1,000 miles to pick up the freight, the deadhead and loaded miles were added together. That number was then divided by the offered pay to determine that the pay met or exceeded our minimum.
The formula is:
total pay offered for the run
deadhead miles + loaded miles
With the two runs in question, one was about 1,000 miles dh and 3,000 miles loaded. The other was about 1,000 miles dh and 2,200 miles loaded. The pay per mile for all miles met or exceeded our minimum per-mile rate, so we accepted the loads.
Regarding the time aspect you properly raise, the moment we accepted the loads and began deadheading to pickup the freight, we were on a run. Except for a stop to pick up the freight, the fuel stops all runs entail, and non-moving-truck naps we were able to work in because we got ahead of the load, we were rolling.
While such runs take a long time to complete, the truck is under load and more productive than it would be if you are waiting for freight between loads. If the pay per mile for all miles driven meets or exceeds our minimum, it is better to be under load than it is to be waiting for freight.
The exception would be a load that might be 4,000 miles long (dh and loaded combined) but ties down the truck for a day or more longer than required to drive that distance. What is true of any run is true of long-deadhead runs also. You want to avoid runs that tie the truck down for an excessive period of time; time that could otherwise be used to haul other freight. That was not the case with either load mentioned above.
To further illustrate the opportunity-cost issue broompilot raises, we once declined a high-paying load that picked up in New Jersey and delivered in California. After a one day wait while the freight was exhibited at a meeting, it was to be returned to New Jersey.
While the run met our pay-per-all miles minimum, time was also considered. After considering the time required to both do the run and rest up after it, it was clear that the time would be better used to haul ordinary loads.
For newbies reading this, please note that long runs like this are rare. I mentioned them only to illustrate the point that deadhead miles are best viewed as part of the whole run, and not as a reason, in and of themselves, to decline a load offer.
The formula is:
total pay offered for the run
deadhead miles + loaded miles
With the two runs in question, one was about 1,000 miles dh and 3,000 miles loaded. The other was about 1,000 miles dh and 2,200 miles loaded. The pay per mile for all miles met or exceeded our minimum per-mile rate, so we accepted the loads.
Regarding the time aspect you properly raise, the moment we accepted the loads and began deadheading to pickup the freight, we were on a run. Except for a stop to pick up the freight, the fuel stops all runs entail, and non-moving-truck naps we were able to work in because we got ahead of the load, we were rolling.
While such runs take a long time to complete, the truck is under load and more productive than it would be if you are waiting for freight between loads. If the pay per mile for all miles driven meets or exceeds our minimum, it is better to be under load than it is to be waiting for freight.
The exception would be a load that might be 4,000 miles long (dh and loaded combined) but ties down the truck for a day or more longer than required to drive that distance. What is true of any run is true of long-deadhead runs also. You want to avoid runs that tie the truck down for an excessive period of time; time that could otherwise be used to haul other freight. That was not the case with either load mentioned above.
To further illustrate the opportunity-cost issue broompilot raises, we once declined a high-paying load that picked up in New Jersey and delivered in California. After a one day wait while the freight was exhibited at a meeting, it was to be returned to New Jersey.
While the run met our pay-per-all miles minimum, time was also considered. After considering the time required to both do the run and rest up after it, it was clear that the time would be better used to haul ordinary loads.
For newbies reading this, please note that long runs like this are rare. I mentioned them only to illustrate the point that deadhead miles are best viewed as part of the whole run, and not as a reason, in and of themselves, to decline a load offer.