CSA & the sixth amendment

moose

Veteran Expediter
" In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence. [1]"

With csa2010 posting a safety score on the drivers record ,(which is a penalty -it will deny the driver from making a living as a driver), when a citation is written ,regardless of court ruling later on ,and without having a way to clear those points ,if court rule in favor on the driver .
CSA2010 is effectively denying citizens from their own Constitution rights .
CSA is a government within a government .
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
" In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence. [1]"

With csa2010 posting a safety score on the drivers record ,(which is a penalty -it will deny the driver from making a living as a driver), when a citation is written ,regardless of court ruling later on ,and without having a way to clear those points ,if court rule in favor on the driver .
CSA2010 is effectively denying citizens from their own Constitution rights .
CSA is a government within a government .

Random drug testing assumes guilt as well. No one cares about drivers rights.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
It could absolutely affect one's career - but the violations aren't criminal, and therefore not a violation of the Constitution.
I don't like it either, but 'unconstitutional' isn't going to get anywhere.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
It could absolutely affect one's career - but the violations aren't criminal, and therefore not a violation of the Constitution.
I don't like it either, but 'unconstitutional' isn't going to get anywhere.

But..CSA will not separate the issues....say one is charged with reckless driving, endangering the public or even DUI and faces jail time....
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Driving is a privilege, not a right. And because it is a privilege, the constitution has nothing to do with being qualified to drive.

The feds are constitutionally obligated to regulate interstate commerce, it is there in the constitution - right there, see it?

Because they can, there is no assumed until proven guilty, they can assume that the driver can't be trusted but make the rules so a driver can go through the process to be trusted.

The lawyers, the courts and some who are crying about rights and in the process twisted the entire thing up. Like applying the ADA to trucking, sorry but the ADA has nothing to do with the right of the individual to make a living in trucking and there should be clear exceptions to the law of what a person can or can not do being the guildeline of what they are allowed to do, which should include trucking. But because lawyers make millions on suing individuals and companies who violate the ADA, there are exceptions made all the time because of the words "my right". BUT no where is there a law protecting the rights of the individual who owns property or has a house to sell, all can be a target of a bad law - just like the CSA 2010 can be abused and not allow one to rectify a mistake.
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
Driving is a privilege, not a right.
You know, I keep hearing this, but I never see any actual legal backing for it.

Slaves have no rights; they have responsibilities and privileges. Americans don't have privileges; we have rights.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
OK here is what I understand the difference is.

A right is not given to us but the government is limited to what they can do to us under our constitution, you do not have to go through any process to obtain it, you do not have to maintain it nor do you have to justify it. For example our right to freedom of expression is not given but rather it is there the instant we are a citizen.

A privilege is given to us, it is regulated and we have to obtain it through different means - testing to see if we are qualified or applying for it and having the application adjudicated or having simply to be registered. Driving is one of those privileges, just like owning a horse, it is not a right, and it is something government regulates or could regulate.

Traffic laws are not uniformed as they should be, licensing laws are not either. We do have traffic court which in all actuality is not needed in some cases, referees are used in place of a judge.

We do not have a right to drive a truck - period. We don't even have a right to make a living because it is not really spelled out anywhere. We have a right to property, we have a right to be free from unwarranted searches but not one of making a living.
 

EASYTRADER

Expert Expediter
Greg,

I realize that the Government tells US driving is a "privilege", however just because they so doesn't mean you should believe it. As for the commerce clause argument, you are right the commerce clause assigns the authority to regulate intrastate trade to the federal government.

However, the original debate on the commerce clause was to stop states from starting trade wars against each other. Like New York tariffing South Carolina's cotton, which sounds silly today but it was a legitimate at the time.

Incidentally, mule skinners were not regulated at the federal level, they weren't regulated at all, except at the local level. In fact, the commerce clause was ONLY used to stop intrastate trade wars until, the 1930's, when the psyco liberals Hoover and Roosevelt, used the commerce clause to grow the Federal government from 3% of gdp to 15% of gdp in ten years prior to WW2. Most of the things that were done in that era were subsequently thrown out by the court and later congresses.

The NEW commerce clause interpretation did not become the norm, until the Supreme Court threatened to throw out social security and the minimum wage. Roosevelt threated to pack the court with socialists if they didn't let him keep these two programs.

The court relented, and the commerce clause has been getting abused ever since.

anyway I'm surprised you are mistaken here because you're normally not.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Easy,
I understand what you are getting at but read my post again and look for the clarification.

OK here is what I understand the difference is.

A right is not given to us but the government is limited to what they can do to us under our constitution, you do not have to go through any process to obtain it, you do not have to maintain it nor do you have to justify it. For example our right to freedom of expression is not given but rather it is there the instant we are a citizen.

A privilege is given to us, it is regulated and we have to obtain it through different means - testing to see if we are qualified or applying for it and having the application adjudicated or having simply to be registered.

Driving is one of those privileges, just like owning a horse, it is not a right, and it is something government regulates or could regulate.


Now the privilege is not given or actually regulated by the federal government in my point, I should have said that but the states. Each state has the right to regulate things that are not spelled out in the constitution - driving is one that is no where in the constitution.

The point is that the state regulates driving as a privilege to maintain the general welfare of the people of the state. It was once communities and cities did the regulating but the trend was and has been to strip those decisions away from the closest level of the people and shove them in some capital in each state. It is a great way to expand states governments. Without laws and regulations, I think the premise would be death and destruction would happen - as we are human and subject to weaknesses.

We have the right to own a weapon, actually any weapon for that matter but that means until we use it for a purpose that it was intended to be used for, discharging a projectile, we have that right to that weapon. When we discharge the weapon, we now have cross over into a safety issue where the state can regulate that action which is the discharge of the weapon.

The same goes for a vehicle, we can own a vehicle but the purpose of the vehicle is to move from one point to another and once we do that, it is a regulated action.

I continue...

Traffic laws are not uniformed as they should be, licensing laws are not either. We do have traffic court which in all actuality is not needed in some cases, referees are used in place of a judge.

We do not have a right to drive a truck - period. We don't even have a right to make a living because it is not really spelled out anywhere. We have a right to property, we have a right to be free from unwarranted searches but not one of making a living.


What I mean in the first part is that the state regulates the privilege of driving and do so in different ways. The state I live in has referees who 'judge' traffic offenses without a jury or actual means of due process. We do have a right to ask for a trail by jury but also we can be refused that request, not a right.

The second part is also a state's issue, driving a truck is not a federal issues outside of the regulations to maintain the need for uniformity exclusive to interstate commerce. The states do handle the regulating and licensing of the drivers, that is their right to do so but until it becomes an interstate issue, the feds have little to do with it.

Now the CSA 2010 is a means to regulate interstate driving by uniformly using data collected by the states. The information and system for that matter has good intentions but until it affects a driver to the point where they can not find a job, not a trucking job, it can not violate any rights.

I hope that all makes sense, I know the history of the feds and the different struggles involved, it actually goes back to Grant and Lincoln, the abuse of the commerce clause by the way.
 
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