CSA 2010 and vans

[AMonger]

I was talking with someone from my carrier yesterday. The subject of CSA 2010 came up. I said I wasn't too worried because, as a van driver, even if I can be cited and penalized under CSA 2010, my chances of getting pulled over and inspected were pretty slim. He said Michigan is claiming that they can and will pull anyone over, even in a van, in furtherance of CSA 2010. If he knows of any other states planning this, he didn't say.

I guess it's time to pull the decals off and look like any other Joe, or create a DBA name with "Florist" or "Plumber" in the title, or something that would indicate that I'm somone not worth fiddling with.

Are other states planning on messing with CVs?

 

[guido4475]

They have been messing with vans fer awile, but I am not too worried, I mean, what all can they chack to begin with? As I have learned not too long ago, we are actually supposed to go into the scales as well.I havent yet, but my day will come,I'm sure.

 

[greg334]

Michigan is a funny state, they are talking again about enforcing the sign regulations for all commercial vehicles, which will be a nightmare. They already have cut back on enforcement of a lot of laws, and target the trucks a bit more. Commercial vehicles are vehicles used for commercial purposed which includes least, for profit and non-profit activities. AND it is any vehicle over 5500 lbs.

As for the CSA 2010 and vans, some say exempt, while others say not exempt. When I asked FMCSA and several state DOT places and I got - if the carrier is an interstate carrier and the driver work for them, they are covered regardless what they drive.

 

[RLENT]

As for the CSA 2010 and vans, some say exempt, while others say not exempt. When I asked FMCSA and several state DOT places and I got - if the carrier is an interstate carrier and the driver work for them, they are covered regardless what they drive.

Well, doesn't look like that if you read most of the CSA 2010 materials out there from FMCSA - they constantly refer to Commercial Motor Vehicle drivers ....

Vans are not always commercial motor vehicles ..... although sometimes they can be ...

 

[Turtle]

1. What is CSA 2010?

Comprehensive Safety Analysis 2010, or CSA 2010, is a major Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve the effectiveness of FMCSA’s compliance and enforcement programs. Its ultimate goal is to achieve a greater reduction in large truck and bus crashes, injuries, and fatalities, while making efficient use of the resources of FMCSA and its state partners.​

Comprehensive Safety Analysis 2010, CSA 2010, is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce commercial motor vehicle (CMV)-related crashes, injuries and fatalities. It introduces a new enforcement and compliance model that allows FMCSA and its State partners to contact a larger number of carriers earlier in order to address safety problems before crashes occur.​

CSA 2010 BASICs:

• Unsafe Driving — Operation of commercial motor vehicles (CMVs) by drivers in a dangerous or careless manner. Example Violations: Speeding, reckless driving, improper lane change, and inattention. (FMCSR Parts 392 and 397)
• Fatigued Driving (Hours-of-Service) — Operation of CMVs by drivers who are ill, fatigued, or in non-compliance with the Hours-of-Service (HOS) regulations. This BASIC includes violations of regulations pertaining to logbooks as they relate to HOS requirements and the management of CMV driver fatigue. Example Violations: HOS, logbook, and operating a CMV while ill or fatigued. (FMCSR Parts 392 and 395)
• Driver Fitness — Operation of CMVs by drivers who are unfit to operate a CMV due to lack of training, experience, or medical qualifications. Example Violations: Failure to have a valid and appropriate commercial driver’s license and being medically unqualified to operate a CMV. (FMCSR Parts 383 and 391)
• Controlled Substances/Alcohol — Operation of CMVs by drivers who are impaired due to alcohol, illegal drugs, and misuse of prescription or over-the-counter medications. Example Violations: Use or possession of controlled substances/alcohol. (FMCSR Parts 382 and 392)
• Vehicle Maintenance — Failure to properly maintain a CMV. Example Violations: Brakes, lights, and other mechanical defects, and failure to make required repairs. (FMCSR Parts 393 and 396)
• Cargo-Related — Failure to properly prevent shifting loads, spilled or dropped cargo, overloading, and unsafe handling of hazardous materials on a CMV. Example Violations: Improper load securement, cargo retention, size and weight, and hazardous material handling. (FMCSR Parts 392, 393, 397 and HM Violations)
• Crash Indicator— Histories or patterns of high crash involvement, including frequency and severity. It is based on information from State-reported crashes.

If you understand the FMCSA's definition of a Commercial Motor Vehicle, what a large truck is and what a bus is, and know whether or not you drive one of them, you'll know whether or not the FMCSA's rules and regulations apply to you and whether or not you need to be in compliance with them. People here and elsewhere will tell you all kinds of things, but the only thing that matters is what the rules and regulations actually state. They are unambiguous and not open to interpretation (except in Michigan where everything is intentionally ambiguous and thus open to a wide variety of interpretation).
​

 

[greg334]

SO Turtle, has Panther put in writing that you are not to worry about this?

I know mine and another one has said vans are being covered by their policies because it covers the driver not the vehicle.

 

[chefdennis]

I can NOT drive a Commerical Motor Vehicle...I do NOT have a CDL, nor am I required to have one by the carrier i lease to.....

 

[Turtle]

SO Turtle, has Panther put in writing that you are not to worry about this?

No. Why should they? There's just a snotload of things that I don't have to worry about that they haven't put in writing.

I know mine and another one has said vans are being covered by their policies because it covers the driver not the vehicle.

CSA 2010 covers the drivers, yes, but only drivers of CMV's. CSA 2010 does not apply to the drivers of cars, light trucks and vans nor to the drivers of otherwise non-commercial motor vehicles.

A particular carrier can state that it covers all of their drivers, and that's fine. Virtually meaningless, but fine nonetheless. The reason is, the DOT and FMCSA are not bound by the internal policies of a given carrier and those enforcing the actual laws don't work for those carriers and thus are not very likely to pull over a non-CMV and try to impose FMCSA CMV rules on those drivers.

Stating that their policies mean that CSA 2010 applies to drivers of non-CMV's is actually a little silly, and a lot ignorant, since CSA 2010 is all about enforcing the actual FMCSA rules, almost none of which apply to drivers of non-CMV's.

I had two difference Safety Supervisors at my carrier tell me independently that they wished the DOT would regulate cargo vans with HoS. Why? Because it would make their job easier. Safety had nothing to do with it. The same thing goes with a carrier's policy that says CSA 2010 will cover van drivers, even though CSA 2010 doesn't cover van drivers. It's to keep van drivers in line out of fear so that they will behave more like an employee. A cargo van driver that gets involved in an accident or gets a traffic citation will absolutely affect the carrier, and the carrier wants to limit those types of incidents, which is why carriers will encompass vans within company policies, even if those polices are, in reality, meaningless, like saying that CSA 2010 applies to vans.

 

[Dreamer]

Of course, we ARE subject when hauling Hazmat.. so, you can be a perfect van driver 99% of the time.. and then one time you're on a placarded load. Of COURSE the scale master pulls the van around ... and you get full Level One inspection, because they figure vans don't follow the rules. I had this recently... the officer went over my van top to bottom, checking brakes, log book, etc.

Remember, every violation (including seatbelt, license plate light, etc..).. counts towards your score. So, you may only get one scalehouse trip in a year, but that one trip can screw up your whole score.


Dale

 

[chefdennis]

Bolt doesn't do HazMat........still not a concern to me

 

[guido4475]

Didnt we beat this horse to death in an earlier thread?

 

[Dreamer]

Yeah, but the horse got woke up LOL.


Dale

 

[guido4475]

Of course, we ARE subject when hauling Hazmat.. so, you can be a perfect van driver 99% of the time.. and then one time you're on a placarded load. Of COURSE the scale master pulls the van around ... and you get full Level One inspection, because they figure vans don't follow the rules. I had this recently... the officer went over my van top to bottom, checking brakes, log book, etc.

Remember, every violation (including seatbelt, license plate light, etc..).. counts towards your score. So, you may only get one scalehouse trip in a year, but that one trip can screw up your whole score.


Dale

Okay,I know I am contradicting myself here, but....Dot officer checking brakes on a van-What did he do, pull the wheels off to do this?Because that is the only proper way that I know of to do that on a van.

Logbook-Since from what I know, and please correct me if I am wrong, but since a cargo van is under 10,000 gvw, and not required by the dot to carry a logbook, but merely required by the carrier or carriers insurance company one is leased to,can the Dot officer actually give a van driver a log-book based fine?

Just wonderin

 

[highway star]

A cargo van hauling Hazmat has to log that trip.

 

[blizzard2014]

Do you guys really wanna get the Cargo Van banned? GO ahead, keep on talking about it, and some DOT man will come on here and get us regulated. I simply feel sorry for all of the Vanners out here who do not have commercial liscenses; you are the ones who are going to be in a world of hurt. I however have a commercial liscense with T-X endorsements and TSA clearance, along with an impeccable MVR.

If the Cargo Van ever gets regulated, i'll simply jump up into a straight truck! It ain't gonna slow me down none. But I tell you all one thing, it won't be worth driving a cargo van if you have to log and scale. I'd just as soon leave the business or go into a large straight truck. Now with that being said; dump the truck, and hate the straight!!

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Do you guys really wanna get the Cargo Van banned? GO ahead, keep on talking about it, and some DOT man will come on here and get us regulated. I simply feel sorry for all of the Vanners out here who do not have commercial liscenses; you are the ones who are going to be in a world of hurt. I however have a commercial liscense with T-X endorsements and TSA clearance, along with an impeccable MVR.

If the Cargo Van ever gets regulated, i'll simply jump up into a straight truck! It ain't gonna slow me down none. But I tell you all one thing, it won't be worth driving a cargo van if you have to log and scale. I'd just as soon leave the business or go into a large straight truck. Now with that being said; dump the truck, and hate the straight!!

Reminds me a few years back there was much discussion that the CV was a dead fish and would be obsolete..the along comes the Sprinter and Aroecell bodies..and BAM we are back with a vengence...now the C class straight is the one in the perverbial barrel...

The straights fear us... and so they should...

 

[blizzard2014]

Yes it is true; more and more shippers are getting forklift elevators installed by the week. All of you straight truck drivers better watch your step out there!

Look here; the reign of the straight truck has now come to an end!!

Achilles Forklift: Elevator | Ads of the World

Being "dock high" is so nineties!

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Yes it is true; more and more shippers are getting forklist elevators installed by the week. All of you straight truck drivers better watch your step out there!

Look here; the reign of the straight truck has now come to an end!!

Achilles Forklift: Elevator | Ads of the World

Being "dock high" is so nineties!

and some shippers have modified a dock with a concrete pad to bring us dock high...if they use a lot of CV's....look out straights...if it weren't for the weight you'd be dust...

 

[greg334]

How can that be Dale?

Your not a commercial vehicle, right?

Was this in Michigan?

 

[blizzard2014]

I'm gonna hire Dee Schneider to sing a song for us at the next EO Convention. We're not gonna take it; oh no, we ain't gonna take it, us cargo van drivers aren't gonna take it anymore! That should be our new theme song!

Or "cargo vans make the truckin world go round!"