Confused

[pjjjjj]

I'm confused..
Let's not talk about how it was 'before'.. but rather, 'now'..
I have seen a few times on here recently where people are saying to potential newbies that it's a bad time, the worst time, and money is too slim.
Agreed.
But...
If you are a 'driver', and you're on a 40/60.. this is where I guess I'm confused.. the driver on the 40% doesn't have expenses, does he? I mean, other than his cellphone? And worker insurance? And of course, he'd have to eat regardless of where he lived.

So say monthly gross revenue is rotten.. say for a straight truck, it's only $4000 (that's pretty rotten).. even at that, the driver would be getting $1600, correct?

And if the driver were in someone's van, and the van were only getting a rotten $500 per week in runs, that's still $500x40% x 4 weeks = $800/month for the driver.

As rotten as that $800 is.. and even deduct his cellphone and occ insurance expenses.. it still works out to better than welfare, correct??

So.. what am I missing? Wouldn't it be the fleet owner of the vehicle who is suffering, as opposed to the driver, since there are costs associated with the truck whether it's running or not, and no matter how much it's making?

And wouldn't it also be the owner/operator who is suffering more than a driver, since he needs to make sure his truck expenses get paid first? If you take that $2000 gross revenue above, for a van OO, and he needs to pay his lease, insurance, repairs, maintenance, qc, fuel, etc., doesn't the OO actually end up worse off than the driver of a fleet van getting a 40% split? This is of course, assuming there is either a lease payment or an amount being put aside for replacement.

 

[Crazynuff]

And if the driver were in someone's van, and the van were only getting a rotten $500 per week in runs, that's still $500x40% x 4 weeks = $800/month for the driver.
As rotten as that $800 is.. and even deduct his cellphone and occ insurance expenses.. it still works out to better than welfare, correct??
.

We sure don't need that attitude . A lot of people going into the trucking industry (or trying ) feel that way . "Any job is better than no job " . Wannabes fail to have the logic to comprehend that with more and more experienced drivers losing jobs and more and more truck driving schools turning out graduates , a lot of those graduates aren't going to find jobs . The driver shortage has disappeared . There is an oversupply of drivers and the large carriers are cutting starting pay . Some are paying as low as $.26 a mile and drivers are lucky to get 2,000 miles a week . Is being away from home weeks at a time taking home less than $300 a week better than welfare ? At least they won't have to pay much alimony and child support when the wife left home with all the responsibility after being convinced $4,000 for trucking school will solve their economic problems decides to file for divorce .
Now how this applies to expediting . Some contractors decide it's not worthwhile to continue with the reduced revenue . Less trucks should mean more work for those trying to ride it out . But those that leave are replaced by someone else that just wants to say they are employed and "will work for food" . They take the loads with the low rates smart contractors know are unprofitable . Is this where you want to see they industry go , providing food and shelter to desperate people ?

 

[Turtle]

Can't speak to a straight, but in a van, one thing to keep in mind is that while the owner does have expenses, he's not living and working in the van 24/7. He's put the van to work for him, so in an oversimplification, he just sits back and rakes in the money that the driver and the van earn for him.

For the driver who grosses $500 a week and receives $200 a week, well, $200 may or may not be better than Welfare, except that at least with Welfare you get Food Stamps, and you're not having to live 24/7 in a van to get it. On a 7 day week, earning $200 works out to $28.57 a day, and by most accounts it will cost you about $20 a day to eat out here.

But let's keep it on a 4-week month, where 28 days costs you $560 to eat, $75 for workers compensation insurance, and figure $100 for a cell phone. That's $735. You'd better be buying fuel at the Flying J to get free showers, otherwise it's $9 a pop to keep clean. Even one shower a week is $36, and now you're up to $771 with just $29 left over. Have a mortgage, pay rent, utilities? Need luxuries like Kleenex? Antacid? Aspirin? Shampoo and toothpaste? Laundry? You're screwed.

Welfare may pay more or less, I don't know, but I do know that living and working in a van is a lot of work, and a lot of wasted time, if all you're getting out of it subsistence wages that merely keep you alive.

The van owner, on the other hand, merely has to keep a warm body in the van to keep the money rolling in, and only has to deal with the fixed and maintenance expenses, of which will usually be more than covered at roughly $800 a month after fuel expenses.

 

[greg334]

doesn't the OO actually end up worse off than the driver of a fleet van getting a 40% split?

No, not really.

The O/O has the advantage when you come down to it if they are smart with their money.

 

[ATeam]

Another thing to keep in mind is that you cannot be in two places at once. If you take a trucking job because it is better than welfare, the job will take you away from home where you could otherwise be looking for work or developing other opportunities.

For those who may be considering it, if you get into trucking not because it is a job you want but a job you need, your life an en employed trucker may very well suck more than it does as the unemployed whatever you are now.

Diane and I are having the time of our lives out here, even in the midst of the recession. But we are geared up for life and work on the road and have been for several years. If you don't want to be out here, the challenges that happy truckers run into every day and consider routine may be the same challenges that beat you down and lead you to rue the day you decided to get into a truck.

See: Expediters Going Hungry, For Real

 

[greg334]

Another thing to keep in mind is that you cannot be in two places at once. If you take a trucking job because it is better than welfare, the job will take you away from home where you could otherwise be looking for work or developing other opportunities.

Opportunities? Well it depends on the person and their ability to either use their skills or gain access to learn new skills. Practical experience teaches people it all depends on more than just the person and their attitude.

For those who may be considering it, if you get into trucking not because it is a job you want but a job you need, your life an en employed trucker may very well suck more than it does as the unemployed whatever you are now.

Phil, you may be right, but again it matters to offer people a realistic point of view. Being unemployed sucks, but again how many single people or childless couples actaully get any form of assistance? Not many.

From a realistic point of view, it is far better to be in a crappy job on the road and pay the bills than to be stressed out living day by day without work.

 

[bubblehead]

I believe that working for so little money as in Turtle's example has evolved from too many people who were led to believe that this was easy money. Visions created by comments implying that you can be a millionaire as an expediter and much literary excrement about how fun it is etc., has contributed to the constant supply of otherwise under qualified drivers pool. Any job is fun if you enjoy doing it and a great amount of revenue can be realized from making sound business decisions. The Idea of someone anointing themselves as successful or an expert then making themselves available to hopeful subjects is providing a diservice to this industry. I am so grateful for the likes of davekc, termite289, Turtle and many others who present the real-world views of this industry. My wife and I have been very fortunate in this business. We attached to a good (not perfect) carrier and have dedicated time for reading EO on a daily basis. Our goals have been exceeded and we are prepared for a long economic downturn. Turtle's example seems to closely represent the reality for the driver(s). It's sad that such a critical industry providing essential service has been relegated to less than poverty levels.

Bring on the glamour, the driving schools and all jump in the pool for the money grab. Just like game over hunted, lakes over fished, land over cropped etc. It will take longer to recover because trucking has been over marketed.

2009 Federal Poverty Guidelines

 

[greg334]

Visions created by comments implying that you can be a millionaire as an expediter and much literary excrement about how fun it is etc., has contributed to the constant supply of otherwise under qualified drivers pool. Any job is fun if you enjoy doing it and a great amount of revenue can be realized from making sound business decisions. The Idea of someone anointing themselves as successful or an expert then making themselves available to hopeful subjects is providing a diservice to this industry.

WOW! That says a lot, an awful lot!

 

[highway star]

Great post, Bubblehead.

 

[layoutshooter]

Yea, and I almost understand it!! I don't know about the ability to self-anoint. I thought only a priest could do that. Layoutshooter

 

[charlee]

Wow Turtle,


I have refrained from commenting on your more idiotic posts before, but that one was crazy. Fleet Owners just sitting back raking in the money and just have to keep a warm body in the truck.......I wish. A truck payment at a very good rate runs AT LEAST 1700$ a month. Ins, qc fees, etc run 135$ a week per truck...that is another 540$ a month PLates for trucks tractors 1700$ a year and straight trucks 800$ a year. Lets talk about the warm body that cannot take care of someone elses property......cabinet doors broken off, seats with crap spilled all over them, flooring destroyed because they cannot wipe feet off at fuel stops etc.... Drivers that value home time more than earning a living because after all...they make enough to pay to the bills.Then there is the repairs....2007 freightliner 1 week out of warranty 5000$ in 3 days. One example......and there are many others like that. I can assure you that if fleet owners were just "sitting back and raking in the money" you would not see so many failed fleet owners and EVERYONE would be doing it. We did our business plan at netting 300$ a week off each truck.......that is used for growth to grow the fleet and upgrade trucks......we figure at 40-50 trucks we will possibly be able to rake in the money....until then we answer the phone at 2 m to help our drivers reposition themselves or anwser their question about a crappy load offer. Not all fleet owners, and I would daresay the majority here sit back and rake in the money.....fyi it takes about 4-5 hours per backhaul to find a decent load to keep trucks moving and making money......why do we do that? to let our teams make 2-3k a week takehome instead of 1200$.......perhaps you better stick to using someone elses words, because your own show a constant lack of insight.



-charlee

 

[broker]

Here is something I can never undestand.

The #1 complaint I hear from Expediters on the road or read here on EO, is we have too many trucks, for the number of loads available.

So, why in the World do any of you encourage newbies to join in our fun?
Are you not just adding fuel to the fire?

I'm confused, why do you want more competition?
BIG JOHN

 

[greg334]

Here is something I can never undestand.

The #1 complaint I hear from Expediters on the road or read here on EO, is we have too many trucks, for the number of loads available.

So, why in the World do any of you encourage newbies to join in our fun?
Are you not just adding fuel to the fire?

I'm confused, why do you want more competition?
BIG JOHN

So Big John,

I would rather discourage someone from entering this business until things get better, which may take a while. Being realistic is important but also so is telling it like it is without fluff is as important.

Many are promoting this work as they have in the past, but they don't know what is going on because they are not experiencing what is going on. They see it from their point of view and never been anywhere else. They get into a position in their carrier and don't move. This applies to a bunch of people, not just one or two.

 

[charlee]

Also to answer original question, I would never encourage anyone to get into this business, leave home and family and be out on the road to make 1200$ a month. It takes a lot to be on the road and it takes a lot financially. If you cannot make more on the road than you do at home, after expenses, then what is the point?

 

[jsbiker]

YES YES Greg334 yes it so true

its time to tell it the way it is, being a realist is hard for people to understand but they will thank you in the long run.

all the BS must be stopped and start telling it the way it is.
this is not EZ money
YOU do have to do more than just drive
you do have to understand the system
you have to understand the carrier you are working with
you have to understand you owner (if not OO)
you have to deal with 1,000s of rules
the list is long and and you must deal with it, its NOT EZ
its not for everyone
yes times are hard, its even harder for the people that think this is not hard work.

 

[x06col]

It's easy to git confused there pj. Kinda like the chicken, egg thingy. There are many success storys, but, it seems many more failure storys. Many enter here with appetites way too large (drivers and fleet owners) for where they are at in life when entering the biz. They developed their appetite over a number of years, then lost the income and figgured they could continue to slide an get by (without making some arrangement to be able to "tighten the belt" if needed.

As far as competition goes, i'd suggest only 2-3% that enter this biz EVER grow to be competition for you. That does not even begin to cover attrition due to retirements, health, etc. The main reason i've seen that results in less than success is the agendas an don't wannas. Followed by management of funds, either because there were bad habits in place or are not tuned in to current economics (as an example on anuther post a fella wuz bout to loose his truck but wuz appluded for paying a house off) to me it'd seem more logical to secure the future of the "tool" that pays for the house an go from there. But what do I know?? The third ranked in my observations is the significant other (and arm chair quarterback) that causes much confusion bout things like what it costs to keep the home fires burning.

 

[MentalGiant]

Well, we made adjustments for the decline rate. We got rid of home, which took about $2000 a month to keep up, which includes all the utilities, insurance, etc.,

We know stay at our daughter and son-in-laws in a guest room when we want to take a break from being on the road. At the same time, we are saving all that money. When we are doing are thing out here, who knows when that will be, we will get another place to live. It just made sense, since we are never there anyways, paying utilities we hardly ever use and trying to find someone that has the time to keep an eye on it every now then. Because stay out on the road from anywhere to one to two months at a time.

 

[pjjjjj]

Thank you everyone for you various viewpoints.
My post was not for any purpose, other than to educate my own confusion.

Broker, I have to say that I find your post most interesting. Just a short time ago, you were asking for feedback about entering the business. You were, imho, put off by the people who said now isn't the time. Yet, now that you are IN the business, you are wondering why some encourage others to do so. It's funny how much difference a perspective can make, isn't it?

And Turtle, yes, who ever would've thought they'd see the day when perhaps a simple daily life requirement would become a luxury, such as having a shower And your estimate of $20 per day to keep fed is just outrageous, imho. I will be happy to show you how to decrease that amount, if you would like (j/k)

Lastly, let me make it clear that I was NOT saying that living on $800/month is swell, nor was I saying this lifestyle doesn't deserve to be rewarded more handsomely than a 'normal job', nor was I saying I think it's a good idea to get into this business right now.

I was just saying that IF the monthly gross revenue is really low, there may in fact not be enough to pay the overhead, the fixed costs.. the lease, R&M, fuel, insurance, qc, and etc.. and IF that were the case, that would mean the fleet owner is in fact losing money, and it would mean the owner-operator is in fact getting paid LESS money than the 40% the driver continues to earn.

And I should also point out that not all owner/operators and drivers have come from the same earning capacities, and customs of living, etc. My guess is that some drivers who may otherwise be sitting at home collecting welfare, are able to find $800 per month a satisfactory payroll, considering they don't have rent to pay any longer. I am not sure how much exactly a person collects when they are, say a single male. What is it? $600? $800? $1000? $500? and from that, they pay rent, phone, groceries, and etc. That woman who stole the van the other day comes to mind, as an example. My guess is that her lifestyle could have in fact improved her situation from what she was accustomed to, if she could've done the job.

My actual confusion was with the people saying there isn't enough revenue for a driver to get into the business right now.. when it appears to me that it could potentially be even more detrimental for a prospective owner/operator to get into the biz right now, or for an OO to decide to become a fleet owner.

 

[broker]

pjjjjj,
Yes, you are so correct, we do look at things much different. After "talking" with many Expediters and reading positive posts from those like ATeam (for over a year), I figured my wife and I could make a good living Expediting.
We made the commitment back in Aug and after that, there was no turning back (sold our car, house, etc.).

Between Aug and the day we took our first load in Dec., many things had changed and changed fast.

As to my question, why would any of you try and recruit another new Expeditor.
We in Expediting are business owners, period.
If you owned a fish and tackle business, would you try and get other fish and tackle stores to set up in your town, especially when times are bad?

Someone like ATeam can pick and choose the more profitable loads. They have been here for many years, they have capital, know contacts in the front office, know the best load areas, etc. We "newbies" have to fight over the scraps and use a crystal ball. That sometimes may mean taking cheap loads or getting stuck in bad areas for reload. We have to survive, we take the bad along with the good.
Some of you vetrans are saying people like us are helping to keep freight rates down.
If you truly believe that, why promote anymore newbies?

Kathy and I have proved to our owner and company, that we are here to stay, no matter what it takes.
We hope that someday we also can be more selective with loads.
That will be after we figure out the system and the economy is going in the right direction.

BIG JOHN

 

[greg334]

So john, who do you work for?