Columbia University Reverses Anti-WikiLeaks Guidance

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Kudos to the saner heads that prevailed at CU:

Days after Columbia University’s School of International and Public Affairs (SIPA) caused an uproar by warning its students against linking to WikiLeaks or discussing the secret-spilling website’s latest cache of diplomatic cables online, the prestigious training ground for future diplomats has changed tack and embraced free speech.

Last week, the SIPA Office of Career Services sent an e-mail to students saying that an alumnus who works at the U.S. State Department had recommended that current students not tweet or post links to WikiLeaks, which is in the process of releasing 250,000 U.S. diplomatic cables — many of them classified — because doing so could hurt their career prospects in government service.

“Engaging in these activities would call into question your ability to deal with confidential information, which is part of most positions with the federal government,” the Office of Career Services wrote.

Now, SIPA Dean John H. Coatsworth has clarified the school’s policy and issued a ringing endorsement of free speech and academic freedom.

“Freedom of information and expression is a core value of our institution,” Coatsworth wrote in an e-mail to the SIPA community Monday morning (full e-mail message below). “Thus, SIPA’s position is that students have a right to discuss and debate any information in the public arena that they deem relevant to their studies or to their roles as global citizens, and to do so without fear of adverse consequences.”

SIPA Professor Gary Sick, the prominent Middle East expert who served on the National Security Council under Presidents Ford, Carter, and Reagan, went even further in repudiating the memo.

“If anyone is a master’s student in international relations and they haven’t heard of WikiLeaks and gone looking for the documents that relate to their area of study, then they don’t deserve to be a graduate student in international relations,” Sick told Wired.com in an interview.

Still, the school says it will pass on any official State Department WikiLeaks guidelines, if and when it gets them.

Over the weekend State Dept. spokesperson P.J. Crowley denied that there is a formal policy warning students against reading, linking or discussing the WikiLeaks cable online. SIPA’s original warning attributed the no-commenting on the released cables to an unnamed State Department alumnus.

Neither Coatsworth’s office nor a State Dept. spokesperson immediately returned requests for comment.

Despite the numerous stories that the leaked cables have inspired, the federal government is calling the leaks dangerous to national security and “illegal.” Following outrage from the government, both Amazon and PayPal suspended services to WikiLeaks in the past week, while federal government IT systems (including that of the Library of Congress) have started blocking access to the site.

The original Career Services warning provoked a spirited debate on and off campus about free speech and academic freedom.

In the interview, Sick said the Career Services warning was most likely a well-meaning attempt to remind students that what they post on social networking sites can affect their career prospects. But, he said, asking international affairs graduate students not to use the internet to discuss WikiLeaks is, well, “absurd.”

Not only is such a request likely to be ignored, but it sends the wrong message to students, according to Sick.

Sick has criticized the WikiLeaks release as an “ego trip for [WikiLeaks chief] Julian Assange,” and said that many of the cables pose a real risk to U.S. interests. But, he said, trying to prevent international relations students from reading or discussing them is naive at best.

“It doesn’t hurt to remind students that things they say in public can be documented and can affect their career prospects,” Sick said. “But The New York Times and Fox News are all reporting their interpretations of the WikiLeaks documents. Scholars and students always want to go to the source, not take someone else’s word for it.”

Telling students that they can’t read or discuss the primary documents is “absolutely contrary to any decent practice in international affairs or any other field of study,” Sick said.

And anyway, he said, “It’s too late. The barn door is wide open. The internet is full of this stuff and it’s not going to go away. They can only make it worse by trying to crack down on this and push it back down the rabbit hole.

In a blog post over the weekend entitled, “Am I a Criminal?” Sick elaborated: “Note to the US government: We know this is bad for you. Don’t make it worse by criminalizing everyone who studies international politics.”

Link to original article, including the email from the Dean, and email from Office of Career Services:

Columbia University Reverses Anti-WikiLeaks Guidance
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
AND this is coming from the university who tells conservatives and libertarians both to shut up.

It is like watching an episode of the twilight zone where the people who scream the loudest against opposing view points and where professors try to ruin academic equality among the students because they simply don't agree with them, are now cheering on something that puts themselves at risk and calling it a victory of free speech?

I don't know if you realize this but freedoms ends at the foot of the campus entrance.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Exactly what you'd expect from ultra liberal academics, abject stupidity.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Well .... considering that good portion of what you post are unverifiable, anecdotal yarns - without much specific data at all ..... that is an ironic statement indeed .... :rolleyes:

Prove me wrong. Prove that members of my family are NOT overseas. Prove that our site was NEVER under threat. OH yeah, you were never there. Were you? WAIT!! I MIGHT have a pic of some of those Purple Heart owners that you think might not exist. I will have to see if they are on this computer, might still be on my camera. I know, I FAKED that missing leg on that pic, right? Your funny. If it is still on the camera it will be a while, don't know if I brought the cables for it.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Let's see if this works. These were SOME of the guys that I made up the stories about.



left pic, left to right: Bronze Star recipient (leaving any day for one of those sites) my non-vet brother, WWII island hoping medic, My Dad WWII Vet with the Mars Task force, far right is me.

right pic, same guys except the one on the far right, owner of a Purple Heart. He was blown up by the same IED that killed one, took that leg of the one guy (no pics of him, sorry) did MAJOR damage to another and lead to my nephews Bronze Star for Valor.
 

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LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I hope some day I can meet at least your dad and brother if not also the other two to thank them for their service, not to mention maybe hear some good stories about you in the bargain. :D
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I hope some day I can meet at least your dad and brother if not also the other two to thank them for their service, not to mention maybe hear some good stories about you in the bargain. :D

Oh do you need to sit around a campfire with us. YOU would LOVE to hear the stories that Sammy, the WWII medic, tells. He is a RIOT!! My brother never served though. He says that not serving is the one big regret in his life. Stories about me? LOL!! Yours ears would BURN!! Great bunch of guys. We had a great time, I only wish I had a few days more to spend with them. My Dad and Sammy are getting up there in age now. My dad is 88 and Sammy 86. They have been hunting together since 1956. Camp will never be the same when they are no longer around.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
LOS: RLENT never accused you of making things or people up - merely posting anecdotal and unverifiable statements. Which you certainly do, and if you expect that photos constitute proof of your statements, then maybe you should look up 'anecdotal' before you respond.
[I posted a photo of my sister on Facebook with a caption saying 'She's been in a rotten mood ever since the house fell on her other sister!' but that doesn't mean it's true.....:D]

 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
LOS: RLENT never accused you of making things or people up - merely posting anecdotal and unverifiable statements. Which you certainly do, and if you expect that photos constitute proof of your statements, then maybe you should look up 'anecdotal' before you respond.
[I posted a photo of my sister on Facebook with a caption saying 'She's been in a rotten mood ever since the house fell on her other sister!' but that doesn't mean it's true.....:D]


Yeah, well, maybe you could meet these anecdotal guys sometime. They are REAL!! Their stories are REAL.The scars and missing limbs are REAL. That attack that caused those scars was aided by "harmless needed leaks" in our press. The one guy is headed for one of those SECURE sites in another country. Along with his wife and son. THEIR lives are now at risk far beyond what they should be. Ask Mrs. Layoutshooter next time you see her about threats the base we were at received and what she went through, with two young sons. Just stories? MOST of what happens out there is NEVER reported.

You see, LIFE happens. There are DEATHS do to leaks like are being posted. It is a NASTY world. You NEVER go into a gun fight with only a knife. It is not the pretty, easy package that some want to wrap things in. NOTHING is a simple as a post in this forum.

Do I even CARE if ANYONE in here believes these stories? NOPE!
Why? I KNOW what happened and when. What others think is of no matter. Even if I had video there would be some who say it was made up.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
OH YEAH!! I must see if I can still find a UTUBE video. The one where the 14 year olds that planted and set off the IED that those ancecdotes in the picture were involved in. The one that blew the head off of the woman soldier in the Humvee. Took that leg off the one, blew the what ever out of one. They were NOT allowed to chase those bombers down. The same attackers who filmed the attack. REAL LIFE. The changes in how IED's were made do to a U.S. news report made the bomb FAR more effective than they used to be. But hey, freedom of the press is ALWAYS good, right? Tell that to that womans parents.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
LOS: RLENT never accused you of making things or people up - merely posting anecdotal and unverifiable statements.
Appreciate the observations (which are entirely correct BTW) .... but you might as well save your breath - LOS doesn't "get it" ....... and likely never will (which is actually sad to say :()

Which you certainly do, and if you expect that photos constitute proof of your statements, then maybe you should look up 'anecdotal' before you respond.
Yup ...... no dispute that people existed ... no dispute that people were injured ..... I wasn't even questioning that ....

But my statement stands: anecdotal and unverifiable statements
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Regarding the subject matter of this thread's title - I think it would be a great idea if the students could examine the WikiLeaks subject matter, considering that it's all public information now. However, the only way it would be a truly productive learning experience for the kids at CU is for them to be exposed equally to both sides of the debate. It's safe to say that the conservative side will most certainly be disallowed or shouted down by those in the intelligentsia in Columbia's faculty who claim to be the champions of free speech. An amusing irony on most any large university these days - freedom of speech is protected and encouraged, so long as it's the type of speech of which the liberals approve.

Another frustrating characteristic of these freedom of speech and press debates is that so many of the liberal participants just don't get it - they simply don't understand the concept as explained by Oliver Wendell Holmes example of yelling "fire in a crowded theater". These naive people think that freedom of speech means anything goes, and everyone should have the rights of access to anyone's business. They don't understand the necessity for our government to conduct a lot of the nation's business in confidence, and that without that confidentiality our position in the world is severely jeopardized.

So for those who think that Julian Assange is some sort of hero, allow me to offer this modest proposal: the next time you're at your company's home office talk to one of the secretaries or administrators and offer them several thousand dollars to steal the listing of your company's top 300 customers, along with their contracted rates, the terms of the contracts, and names of key contacts and their phone numbers and e-mails. I'll set up a website called ExpeLeaks and put this information out for all other expedited freight companies to read, evaluate, and then send their salesmen beating down the doors of your top customers with offers of better service and cheaper prices. When a bunch of your major customers are picked off by your competitors and you're down to about 500 miles a week you'll still have the warm and fuzzy feeling from having stood up for the public's right to know; and when you start talking to the recruiters from competitive fleets, I'm sure they'll welcome you with open arms for being such a champion of the people;)

Of course you might have a different outlook if you were one of the owners or key managers that helped start the business from scratch, and spent years investing your money, sweat and years of 60-70 hour weeks making the venture successful. Likewise, those who have sacrificed their blood, sweat, tears, etc for their country have a different viewpoint than the noisy jackals who sit back and enjoy the freedoms for which others have sacrificed so much to insure. All done to protect the freedoms that allow these nitwits with their bloated sense of entitlement the right to aid and abet a traitor and coward like Julian Assange.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Pilgrim -

1 - Kids do not attend colleges or universities, they are adults.

2 - Ann Coulter
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
"But my statement stands: anecdotal and unverifiable statements"


No RLENT, you are incorrect in your observation of what I understand or don't. I use the only means I know, anecdotal or otherwise, to TRY to get across a point. FREEDOM of the PRESS without RESPONSIBILITY KILLS, MAIMS and puts lives at risk. Most of the real life stories that bear this out are NEVER reported. WHY? Irresponsible people are not able to accept the responsibility of their OWN actions. Arrogant people ONLY point out what THEY believe are OTHERS failings.

Irresponsible reporting has lead to a marked increase in deaths and injuries on the battle field.

Wikileaks has already put LIVES at risk. The lives of those who have courage and sense of responsibility to this Nation and are willing to put their lives on the line. The lives of their families are placed at risk as by this coward as well. That is not "drama". that is the reality.

I want to see all the FREEDOM without RESPONSIBILITY crowd to go into the wards at the VA hospitals and tell those courageous young people who's lives have been altered forever, partly due to irresponsible reporting, that their missing limbs are worth the IRRESPONSIBILITY that so many revel in.


Newton said it best, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Spouting off just because you can is NOT taking advantage of a Freedom, it is acting like a tiny child who has yet to learn the lessons of self control and responsible adult behavior.

Reveling in and supporting this will, in the long term, totally erode the very freedoms you claim to be defending.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Joe,

Your statement above only serves to highlight and reinforce the fact that you clearly don't "get it".

What it is that you "don't get" has been pointed out to you before on here by others than myself in very plain words .... and you are still incapable (apparently) of understanding.

Being incapable of either seeing or understanding, you will, undoubtedly perceive the above as an attack on you - it's really not (really more of a hint) .... in fact, if you really understood, it would be something that you could use to bolster your own credibility.

As one EO member once remarked to me: ".... if he actually had a career in the intelligence community, I'll bet it was as a janitor or something ...."

I personally don't hold that quite that view myself ..... but I (among a number of others) have a rather dim view of your credibility when it comes to certain matters ...

Here's another hint: merely saying stuff repeatedly - with no verifiable substantiation - does nothing to bolster your credibility .... in fact, it has quite the opposite effect ...

Probably a waste of breath ..... but one can always hope ....
 
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LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Joe gets it far more than most people do and tells the truth.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Joe,

Your statement above only serves to highlight and reinforce the fact that you clearly don't "get it".

What it is that you "don't get" has been pointed out to you before on here by others than myself in very plain words .... and you are still incapable (apparently) of understanding.

Being incapable of either seeing or understanding, you will, undoubtedly perceive the above as an attack on you - it's really not (really more of a hint) .... in fact, if you really understood, it would be something that you could use to bolster your own credibility.

As one EO member once remarked to me: ".... if he actually had a career in the intelligence community, I'll bet it was as a janitor or something ...."

I personally don't hold that quite that view myself ..... but I (among a number of others) have a rather dim view of your credibility when it comes to certain matters ...

Here's another hint: merely saying stuff repeatedly - with no verifiable substantiation - does nothing to bolster your credibility .... in fact, it has quite the opposite effect ...

Probably a waste of breath ..... but one can always hope ....



You are selling me short, again. As I stated MOST of reality is NOT on the news or internet. It just happened. I have NO other means of attempting to explain that irresponsibility KILLS, even in the press. MORE so in the press. I under stand what you are saying, it just does not fit into real life senerios.

As to what I did in my career, I cannot verify it, prove or anything, so, by your standards, it must not have happened,
right?

How does one verify personal experiences that were NEVER reported on the news, as most things never are. How in the world could I verify or "prove" what I did when 99% of it WAS and much still is classified? Break the law to satisfy you? I don't think so.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Joe gets it far more than most people do and tells the truth.
When one states things as being true that are, in fact, inaccurate, and not true, then one has told a lie ..... whether by intent and design, or simply through carelessness and/or ignorance.

It is indisputable that LOS has been inaccurate on a number of occasions.

One may draw their own conclusions, based on the above.

Clearly LDB, your "standards" of "telling the truth" are very different than mine ....
 
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