CIA Workers Killed in Afghanistan as U.S. Steps Up Spying Role

[wimpy007]

And just what is your back ground and contribution to the cause to keep this country safe from those who would like to destroy it. As it is said "you can't handle the truth".

 

[jaminjim]

And just what is your back ground and contribution to the cause to keep this country safe from those who would like to destroy it. As it is said "you can't handle the truth".

You are kidding right? Are you going to quote any other lame Tom Cruise movies?

 

[layoutshooter]

Well, it is most likely true. Most Americans either don't want to know the truth or can't handle it. The world is not the love in that they want to think it is. It might interfere with their TV and Brewskis.

 

[wimpy007]

I second that Layout, it is easy to plagiarize the thoughts of others and claim them as your ideas. Check ASALIVES.

 

[layoutshooter]

I have seen the website, it's pretty cool. I know that you, as I, take a lot of pride in having been a part of the Army Security Agency. Some of the best men I have ever met were a part of that outfit. I would like to go to one of the intell reunions at Vint Hill Farms someday, have you ever made one?

 

[jaminjim]

layoutshooter

Well, it is most likely true.

Thats one heck of a large assumption

Most Americans either don't want to know the truth

And just who in the hell told you some nonsense like that. Or do you just assume to know what the American Citizenry wants to know

or can't handle it.

Same as above more or less.

The world is not the love in that they want to think it is.

Huh?

It might interfere with their TV and Brewskis.

[/QUOTE] I'm not sure that I can go along with your train of thought.

Joe sorry to say this but your comments are sounding like some Politician smokin a stogie in a back room somewhere. "Ah hell Wimp they don't need to know or their to chicken **** to understand what us real men need to accomplish. Give em some beer and flash a little T&A on the TV and they will be fine." We know what is best for them.

 

[layoutshooter]

Hey wimpy007, I have a vest in my Army trunk that you should see sometime. It is a denim vest, tiny now but I used to be able to wear it at one time. It has several "un-official" ASA patches on it. The really cool one is on the back. A friend of mine and I designed that one while stationed at Misawa. It is about 10" across, a circle, with a running chicken wearing headsets and some lighting bolts, a mill, a booze bottle and some other things that an old "Bear Hunter" would find interesting. I wish I had a camera good enough to get a picture so I could post it for you. I might try one day but my camera is not all that good.

 

[layoutshooter]

Oh jaminjim, you know what I am talking about. Of course it is not everyone, but lots of them are like that. You have heard some of it from time to time I am sure. You know the kind, they think all you have to do is hold hands and sing Kumbia and the world would be happy.

 

[layoutshooter]

Hey wimpy007, I got a picture of the patch and it is not all that bad. Mrs. Layoutshooter is using the other computer right now and I cannot get the pictures off of the camera on this one. Check back tomorrow afternoon, I should have it up in here by then, you will get a real kick out of it.

 

[RLENT]

Lighten up RLENT, that is just an "old spy term".

No - I won't lighten up - it ain't gonna happen.

I consider that the matters which we are discussing here are deadly serious - they go to the future of my country, our republic - and whether will we remain free men, or just merely the subjects of a police state.

I am quite proud to say that I followed in the footsteps of Wimpy007.

Well, I don't know wimpy007 - maybe you do - however I call tell you this:

If the one comment that he made, and which I referenced, is in any way indicative of his attitude toward those he claims to have served, I have no interest in treading that path - because it is the path of the slavemaster, or his minions.

I picked up the fight where he left off. Just as others have taken up where I left it for them. The "Shadow War" never ends.

Indeed it doesn't - just remember: all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Anyone who is a citizen of this country, and enjoys it's many benefits and freedoms (or what is left of them) has an implicit duty (whether they recognize it or not) to uphold the Constitution - and it doesn't matter whether one has worn the uniform, or has sworn the oath.

You should also show some respect for your elders, he earned it.

My respect is not something that I allow someone else to grant to others willy-nilly - if it has indeed been earned, then I will happily grant it - but it ain't automatic - no matter whether any individual thinks they have earned it or not - it ain't theirs to give - it's mine.

You can ask for it, yea even demand it of me - but if you do, you must be prepared to fully account for why you feel you have earned it. In the end, it will be my choice whether you receive it.

To operate on any less a basis, is to be but a slave.

 

[layoutshooter]

You believe what ever you want, I really don't give a flip. Just keep one thing in mind, there is no one in here that believes in our Constitution more than I do. That is why I spent 20 years defending it.

I am well aware of defending it against all enemies, even the domestic ones. You can accuse me of anything you want, except doing anything to harm our Constitution. Of course, you have no idea since you never served with me, or wimpy007 for that matter.

And yes, you should have respect for your elders. Again, I don't really care if you agree or not. That is how I was raised and that is what I believe. I still to this very day call my dad's friend MR. even though I have been hunting with him for over 40 years, he is my senior and he deserves it. 2 years island hopping in the Pacific, as a combat medic no less, earns him even more that the norm.

 

[RLENT]

I second that Layout, it is easy to plagiarize the thoughts of others and claim them as your ideas. Check ASALIVES.

I haven't plagiarized the thoughts of anyone - in fact, I believe what I have done is quoted and then correctly attributed the words to those that spoke them. Perhaps you need to review the definition of the word plagiarize, so that you actually understand what it means.

That I happen to agree with these words and embrace them, in no way lessens them, or the wisdom behind them.

It would seem that the problem that folks like you (and certain others of a similar ilk) have, is that I know these words - this wisdom that was possessed by our Founders - and have the requisite understanding to apply them to relevant matters in the present.

BTW, just so you understand - ideas aren't something that can be exclusively owned by a single individual.

While it is certainly true that an single individual can be the originator or source of an idea, the idea itself is not some sort of property or chattel that a single individual can lay claim to, to the exclusion of all others - IOW: if you can think it, you can own it.

 

[wimpy007]

My wife and I attended a small gathering in Arlington, VA about 5 years ago, it was for ASA personel from HQ ASA who were stationed on TDY around the world. Sad how many are gone.

 

[Pilgrim]

Seriously, are you saying that the only way to have knowledge of something is in the first hand ?

There are some things in life in which first hand experience is ABSOLUTELY THE ONLY WAY to gain complete knowledge and understanding of the essence of an event or activity. There are many examples, but for the purposes of this discussion I'll only offer a few:

• Military Combat. Don't even try to tell me you understand what it's like unless you've done it. In spite of all the books and movies, no one can conceive what it was like to be involved in B-29 bombing missions of WW2, with firefights in the Viet Nam jungles, or even special forces missions in Iraq or Afghanistan. The average citizen simply can not imagine what it's like for their life to be in immediate danger, and having to kill other human beings in order to survive. Especially when our soldiers are dealing with a barbaric enemy that wears no uniform and follows no "rules of war", there will be times when they are forced to ignore the political correctness imposed on them by our politicians and espoused by the theoretical musings of college professors. There is only one rule of war: We win, they lose. One has to have experienced combat or similar life threatening experiences in order to understand why soldiers or agents sometimes do what they do. I have yet to meet anyone that truly understands what being in the military is like without having served in it. No other life experience is similar.
• Parenting. It's always amusing to see some "expert" on child raising - usually some unmarried child psychologist - on TV or in the print media, telling us how we should reason with our 14-month old and rationally explain to him why he shouldn't whack his 8 month old cousin over the head with his toy truck. Unless you've raised children, keep your theories on child raising to yourself because you don't know what it's like.
• Playing Golf (or Baseball, or any other sport). Unless you've actually played the 17th hole at Sawgrass or tried to hit a 90 mph fastball, you can't appreciate what it's like to actually do it. You can read about all the experiences of others, but your knowledge is vastly incomplete without having done it yourself.
• Driving an Expedite Truck and living the lifestyle - no further explanation needed here.

Regarding the CIA and its so-called atrocities, it's true that there should be some oversight of the agency and that true lawbreakers should be held accountable. However, without this type of agency we would be at a serious disadvantage to enemies and allies alike since they all have similar groups that are commissioned to do the dirty work on their country's behalf. It's extremely naive to think that the activities of this agency should be opened and subjected to scrutiny by the mainstream media.

 

[RLENT]

And just what is your background and contribution to the cause to keep this country safe from those who would like to destroy it.

Well, part of my contribution is to refute those who lamely attempt to maintain that citizens of a free society such as ours have no right, nor a need to know, the acts done in their name - or, by inference, to hold those accountable who would commit those acts.

Beyond that, you don't have a need to know ......

You are kidding right? Are you going to quote any other lame Tom Cruise movies?

Yeah .... you literally couldn't make this chit up: I'm wantin' to talk documented historical facts, the Founding Fathers ...... and this fella wants to quote Jack Nicholson back at me ...... Good Lord ........ and it's the second time it's happened in this thread ......

Boggles the mind.

Might say something though about the existing education level among the general populace ...... dunno .....

 

[RLENT]

However, without this type of agency we would be at a serious disadvantage to enemies and allies alike since they all have similar groups that are commissioned to do the dirty work on their country's behalf.

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is argument of tyrants. It is the creed of slaves."

...... William Pitt in the House of Commons November 18, 1783

 

[layoutshooter]

My wife and I attended a small gathering in Arlington, VA about 5 years ago, it was for ASA personel from HQ ASA who were stationed on TDY around the world. Sad how many are gone.

I know what you mean. Of the 20 or so that were around during my career the are only 5 of us left. I amazes me just how young so many die when they were involved in our industry. We, my friend, are the lucky ones.

 

[Pilgrim]

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is argument of tyrants. It is the creed of slaves."

...... William Pitt in the House of Commons November 18, 1783

Interesting quotation, although it strokes with a rather broad brush; it could easily be applied to the health care and cap & trade legislation currently being proposed in congress.

However, in Pitt's day there weren't fanatical Islamofascists trying to board airplanes or enter crowded marketplaces for the sole purpose of killing innocent civilians who harbor religious or cultural beliefs other than theirs. Maybe we should remember Pitt's words the next time we're told to arrive at an airport three hours prior to an international flight so we can wait in line for an hour or more to be subjected to an electronic strip search while partially trained govt contractors rummage through our luggage. Is it really necessary to sacrifice some of our freedoms in order to avoid being killed by barbaric vermin that call themselves "jihadists"? Unfortunately, the answer is "yes".

 

[RLENT]

Interesting quotation, although it strokes with a rather broad brush; it could easily be applied to the health care and cap & trade legislation currently being proposed in congress.

Absolutely true - and a very good point - there is no argument from this quarter on your application of it.

However, in Pitt's day there weren't fanatical Islamofascists trying to board airplanes or enter crowded marketplaces for the sole purpose of killing innocent civilians who harbor religious or cultural beliefs other than theirs.

That's true - however, roughly around the time of Pitt's quote, there was the matter of the Barbary Pirates - the Islamofacists of their day - perhaps there is something there to be learned, in terms of how to handle the matter.

Maybe we should remember Pitt's words the next time we're told to arrive at an airport three hours prior to an international flight so we can wait in line for an hour or more to be subjected to an electronic strip search while partially trained govt contractors rummage through our luggage.

Indeed, we certainly should.

Is it really necessary to sacrifice some of our freedoms in order to avoid being killed by barbaric vermin that call themselves "jihadists"? Unfortunately, the answer is "yes".

I would much rather sacrifice some of their freedoms - no, all of their freedoms - rather than a drop of mine ...... or yours ....

BTW, I meant to comment on the following, but I was too tired last night, and I done something that I don't often do (consume alcohol ):

There are some things in life in which first hand experience is ABSOLUTELY THE ONLY WAY to gain complete knowledge and understanding of the essence of an event or activity.

This is true - however the post of mine that you are replying to was meant to refute what I took to be the implication of LOS (which has come up a number of times) that the only way to know of something was to experience it in the firsthand.

Clearly, that premise is not true - indeed it is one thing that separates man from animal: his ability to pass on vast amounts of knowledge to those that follow.

Regarding the CIA and its so-called atrocities, it's true that there should be some oversight of the agency and that true lawbreakers should be held accountable.

Seems like a fairly reasonable position to me. Now, having got that out of the way, the discussion could progress to what should the law be, in terms of such organizations.

As a first premise, I would submit that interference in the affairs of a foreign government, that has been popularly-elected in a fair and uncorrupt manner, with the intention of overthrowing that government and installing a government to our liking, maybe oughta be a no-no.

 

[Pilgrim]

That's true - however, roughly around the time of Pitt's quote, there was the matter of the Barbary Pirates - the Islamofacists of their day - perhaps there is something there to be learned, in terms of how to handle the matter.

I also thought about them, but the Americans and Europeans didn't really start to take decisive military measures against them until the early 1800's. The pirates weren't completely eradicated until France went in, conquered and colonized Algeria in about 1830. As mentioned above, there is a lesson to be learned from this chapter in history; I can't help but wonder if our leaders have the will and resolve to even study the chapter, and think "Somalia" or "Yemen" as they read it. And no, I'm not suggesting that the US should colonize either of those two places - just that serious military action yields results.