Canned corn final answer
- Thread starter Slo-Ride
- Start date
Picking out a list of successful people without college degrees does not in any way prove that "a college degree does not equal intelligence," which is what you asserted. Success and intelligence are not even the same thing, nor do they require each other. One can be very successful at something and still be quite unintelligent. It takes a significant amount of intelligence to attain a college degree. I think it's safe to say that the list of UN-famous college dropouts is considerably longer than the list of famous college dropouts. Using genius, which is the exception, doesn't really prove anything, either, particularly in the case of Edison. While Edison did not have any college, he was nevertheless well educated, and the employees under his direction at Menlo Park, who developed the technology for his inventions and patents, were awash in college degrees, and Edison relied heavily on them. Other than the phonograph, which was utterly unique and original, all of Edison's inventions and patents, including the light bulb, were improvements on previous inventions.
Einstein did indeed earn a teaching diploma, which is a degree (diploma - document given by an educational institution conferring a degree on a person or certifying that the person has satisfactorily completed a course of study), and did so after completing the required four years of study at the Swiss Federal Polytechnic University in Zürich. Then, four years after that, he completed his doctoral thesis entitled "A New Determination of Molecular Dimensions" and was awarded his PhD from the University of Zürich. That same year he published four revolutionary papers on Brownian motion, special relativity, the equivalence of mass and energy (E=mc[SUP]2[/SUP]), and the photoelectric effect (for which he would later be awarded the Nobel Prize in Physics). He spent the rest of his life as a professor and research fellow, most of it at the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton, NJ, and at Cal Tech and Princeton University.
As for the statement "college is in no way needed for success," that really depends on how you define success. There are many, many careers where a college degree is an absolute requisite for success at any level. For example, that of a neurosurgeon, or an Industrial Engineer (which is just one of the many reasons why Noah couldn't get hired at Ford).
Sorry, I have met far too many with degrees that were dumber than a box of rocks. All one has to do to get some degrees is parrot what the profs say.
College is was over stressed. One must be just as, or maybe even more, intelligent, to become a journyman tool maker, or a mason, etc. Most everything that can be taught in school can, and often is, self learned.
Degrees don't equal intelligence as proven by suggesting throwing cans of corn at bad guys as a defense. I won't even go to far into our "elected officials" and our 18 trillion in debt. Must not be TOO smart to do that.
College is was over stressed. One must be just as, or maybe even more, intelligent, to become a journyman tool maker, or a mason, etc. Most everything that can be taught in school can, and often is, self learned.
Degrees don't equal intelligence as proven by suggesting throwing cans of corn at bad guys as a defense. I won't even go to far into our "elected officials" and our 18 trillion in debt. Must not be TOO smart to do that.
About some things, I'm sure. But I bet they weren't dumb about their fields of study.
If only it were that easy. There is no way anyone with a degree would say that, because it simply isn't true. Parroting may get some people through high school, but it won't get you very far in any individual college courses (except the lecture courses), much less even close to a degree.
Yeah, college is over-stressed, if what you're after is a blue collar skilled trade. We've been over-stressing a 4 year degree for decades to the point now where skilled trades like welding and CNC operators are very hard to find, many of which will pay 6 figures after a few years at the job. But whether it's a welder or a tool maker or a mason or any other skilled trade, you really don't have to be very intelligent to do it. All you have to do is learn the skills of the job. I know highly skilled electricians who know the Electric Code forwards and backwards, but are utterly stumped by basic algebra. There are illegals and teenagers working in skilled trades during the summer, and you can learn most of it by watching YouTube videos. That's not to say that it doesn't hurt to be intelligent in the trades, because the more intelligent you are the better off you'll be.
High school, sure. College, not so much. There is a lot of college stuff (not most, but a lot) that can be self taught, but those are mostly the first-year Lecture courses of facts and figures, history, background, theories, etc. Those are the "parrot" courses. And the Colloquium courses, which are mostly reading and then discussion, although the discussion part is hard to nail down when self-taught. You often learn far more in the discussion than you did in the reading, but you need the reading to understand the discussion. But the more advanced courses of Section (which is like group study and discussion), Seminar (where you present your work and research skills), and laboratory and studio courses are difficult or impossible to do on your own without the resources of the university.
Self-learning also brings with it the problem of reinforced ignorance. You can learn a lot of your own, but there will always be some things you don't learn, and don't even know about in order to ask questions about it to learn it, simply because of the restricted environment of self-education. It's kind of like reading all of EO and then going out and driving a truck and then thinking you know all about expediting. But if you talk regularly with other drivers, exchange ideas and experiences, you open yourself up to more information. Self-education runs the risk of learning just enough to be dangerous, where you think you've got it, but some key pieces of information never presented themselves to you in your study, and you are wholly ignorant of it. I see that a LOT in people when they've educated themselves about batteries. They look at an appliance and see that it just draws 4 amps, so they plug it into the 120 volt inverter which is connected to their 100 Ah battery and are dumbfounded when the battery dies 45 minutes later, not realizing that 4 amps at 120 volts is 44 amps at 12 volts through an inverter, and they never even heard of the Peukert Effect. What? Huh? Crappy battery is what it is. Hrmph.
In the context in which we've placed it in this thread, you're right, throwing cans of corn for defense doesn't sound very intelligent. But in the context of when and how the statement was originally made, it's actually quite intelligent.
If an intruder with the intent of doing harm, like shooting people, made their into a school, and the students were unable to evacuate the building, the teachers are to barricade the students in the classrooms. If the intruder managed to breach the barricade, at that point, as a last resort, you want to be able to throw anything and everything you can at the intruder to disrupt, distract and disorient the intruder. 30 cans of corn hurled by middle school students is gonna have far more of an effect as a last resort than will 30 #2 pencils and textbooks and spiral bound notebooks, which should also be thrown.
It's not unlike the very intelligent suggestion that a women walking alone in a parking garage or parking lot, if she doesn't have in her possession some other form of self-defense, to have her car keys with one of the keys sticking through her fingers while she holds them in her fist, to use the protruding key to gouge skin and eyes in self-defense in the event of an attack. She may not want to carry a gun, or be able to because of where she works, or might not be able to get it from her purse in the event of a swift attack. But her fist is right there, and with a pointy metal weapon of sorts sticking right out of it. It could be the difference between being abducted and being able to get away.
I've met a lot of people without a degree that were pretty darn dumb. Not sure what point is trying to be made by Los at all. A person will never hurt themselves by getting a degree. As a matter of fact getting a degree is a pretty smart thing to do in the first place.
It depends on what your degree is in, and how that relates to your chosen life occupation. Degrees are expensive, so getting one that can't be useful in the real world is pretty stupid.
On the other hand--- somebody who knows what he/she wants to do with his/her life and gets the education to target their life's work is pretty smart to begin with.
About the subject of this thread--- the principal may be an excellent educator-- though given this thread's topic I have my doubts-- but is no hand to be at a fight with a crazed gunman. Cans of corn? Really? This principal has never once fought down a gunman by hurling cans of corn at him, it's just a theory of something that might be crazy enough to work--- you hope.
On the other hand--- somebody who knows what he/she wants to do with his/her life and gets the education to target their life's work is pretty smart to begin with.
About the subject of this thread--- the principal may be an excellent educator-- though given this thread's topic I have my doubts-- but is no hand to be at a fight with a crazed gunman. Cans of corn? Really? This principal has never once fought down a gunman by hurling cans of corn at him, it's just a theory of something that might be crazy enough to work--- you hope.
Here ya go.
Can canned goods stop school shooters? - CNN.com
"It's part of active shooter response training offered by the ALICE Training Institute, a company founded by a former police officer and former elementary school principal."
Can canned goods stop school shooters? - CNN.com
"It's part of active shooter response training offered by the ALICE Training Institute, a company founded by a former police officer and former elementary school principal."
I'm a firm believer in "use what you got", and while cans of corn [are peas ok?] may not be the optimal defense weapon, they'd absolutely be better than no weapon. Especially if a couple of them hit the target. Actually, if the star pitcher connected with one, that might be all that's needed.
If you'd said a person will never hurt themselves by getting more education, I'd agree - but a degree isn't the smartest way to do it, if it isn't going to put you where you want to be. I'm assuming we're talking a BA, or such, as in "college degree", not the vocational kind, like HVAC, because the vocational kind is where a lot of people should be. Not everyone is college material, and that's a good thing, IMO.
Getting a degree that doesn't do what you want to do in life absolutely can hurt you, when you have to pay off the student loans.
You hear about the Papa Johns delivery girl who was attacked while making a delivery in Atlanta, forced to the ground at gunpoint, then reached into her own pocket and pulled out a gun and shot the guy in the face? Police found the guy a few yards away and arrested him. His companion escaped in her delivery car.
Papa Johns has a no-gun policy, but she's not gonna be fired. They've reassigned her to in-store duties and are paying for any counselling she might need (apparently, to get over the trauma of shooting an attacker in the face, but I don't imagine she's all that traumatized).
Here's the story, which also lists some VERY pointed tweets to Papa Johns.
Papa John's stands by employee who shot armed robber in the face | Daily Mail Online