Bio fuel in IL & IN

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Got a surprise today with a truck freezing up in WI. Got it running with a change of fuel filters and a lot of anti-gel. Come to find out from KW, that they do calls all day long from froze up trucks from IL.
Both states, IL and IN, cut their fuel with 10 to 20 percent bio.
Bio freezes much faster so they said a considerable amount of anti-gel is needed to compensate unless you have heated tanks and lines.
Thankfully, we dodged a tow.
Fuel that froze was from the TA in Hempshire, IL outside of Chicago.
Learn something new everyday.
 
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Jack_Berry

Moderator Emeritus
dave, thats HAMPshire, sir.

hemp indeed. :rolleyes: some of the best plant material to make it from is hemp, along with coconut oil and jotropa.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Last week, I fueled at the TA in Hampshire, then headed to Iowa, and ran into a problem with water in the fuel filter. Didn't need a tow, just a filter change & a couple bottles of Diesel 911, but it's good to know things before getting fuel, not after having a problem with it.

 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Your correct on the Hampshire.
My bad.
Thanks for catching that.
Then again, Hempshire sounds more purposeful.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I never fuel in IN due to the fuel tax rip off but fuel in IL. I won't be fueling there in the cold weather from now on.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Ditto on IN. We won't be buying fuel in IL either know that we know it isn't worthy in extreme temps.
 

Bruno

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
US Marines
Thanks Dave its been a cold one. The ER unit froze up in Ill a few days ago after they got fuel at that TA. My wife got them fixed and on the way to Fl. Its been a cold one
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Just a note to Sprinter drivers. Be very careful about biodiesel. The latest advisory from Daimler for Sprinters is B5 (for 06's and earlier, not sure about the 07's and later). But the way the standards are for commercial biodiesel (ASTM D 975 for regular, ASTM D 9751 for biodiesel) makes it so that you really don't have to be concerned with B5 or B10, or even B11, really. If you do use B5 or above, you really should be using something like Howes Power Cleaner or the Power Service that cleans the injectors.

But once you go beyond that, like B20, you are likely to start having problems with seals, fuel filter, and injectors. You will have to be careful in Illinois and Indiana, as sometimes the pumps will say one blend percentage, and what you get out of them will be higher. If there's any doubt, use plenty of Howes Power Cleaner (double dose in that tank) to ensure the injectors are kept clean and the risk of deposits are minimized.

I've had a time or three where regular diesel wasn't available and had to use B20, and in one case B25. In those cases I top off the tank with regular diesel as soon as I use about a quarter of a tank, in order to cut the bio percentage down. And, of course, use plenty of Howes.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Turtle: how do you know that the percentage you're getting is higher than stated on the pump?
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Because the first time I saw "Between B10 and B20" on a pump (it was either at that TA or the Pilot on 255 just east and a little south of Pontoon Beach), I asked which it was. (At one place it said B20 and the other it had the range listed.) Turns out it can be anywhere between B2 and B20 when it's delivered (although B2 is rare anymore - there used to be an IL law about state vehicles all being required to use B2, but that was bumped to B10 at a minimum last year), and some places have the range listed on the pump, while others just have B10 or whatever listed and don't bother to change the B-sticker if they get a different percentage. In a Sprinter, you have to be careful, which is why I ask, nearly every time, before I fuel up in IL and IN (and most places west of Walcott, actually).

If on the pump it just says biodiesel and doesn't specifically say what percentage, I'll for sure ask. If a percentage isn't listed, it's supposed to be B20, but some places out in western IA and KS and NE, and even a few places around MN, it might be B25 or B30. And I don't even want B20. If B20 is all they have, I'll ask if they know where any non-biodiesel is, and then go there. Ran into that in Scottsbluff, NE where everything in town was B20 or B30, except at the Co-Op where they had regular.

Sometimes the clerk at the fuel desk doesn't even know what they have in the tanks. All they know is what's supposed to be in there. If they aren't sure, I usually don't take the chance.

Last month (Dec 08) the FTC regulations for correct biodiesel labeling at the pump went into effect. B20 is the standard, and if the pump is labeled as B20, or just plain "biodiesel" without a percentage, then B20 is what is supposed to be in there, but it can be anywhere from B5 to B20. And listing a range is fine by the FTC.

In the winter months, especially up north, most places cut it to B5 or B10, but some leave it at B20. The Illinois Soybean Association apparently has a lot of clout in that state (Illinois is the national leader in biodiesel), and too much diesel ends up at more than B20, and in the winter when they usually cut it to B10 or less, if often ends up being more (the fuel delivery invoice will tell the manager what's in there, tho). Same thing happens in a few other soybean-centric states.

Most big diesels, especially newer ones, don't have any problems with B25 or higher. But older engines, and smaller vehicle engines like cars, Sprinters and pickups, it can matter a great deal. Biodiesel is a solvent that will eat rubber seals right up.

But for a Sprinter (and most Chrysler diesels) B5 is what they recommend as a max, and it's nearly impossible to find B5 at the pumps. I prefer regular diesel, but don't freak out when all I can find is B10, but I want to make sure that it's no more than B10, cause even at B10 I use extra Howes. But B20 is rapidly becoming the standard all over. And up north, espcially in IL and a few other places, it's B20 even in the winter, and sometimes it's a little more than that.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
I can attest to a fuel mileage drop after running Mn and Iowa way....18-20 mpg....now I am back east...22.4/24.1.

I know cold weather effects us...but biodeisel is a real kicker....save the country and go broke doing it...was that intentional???
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
If the pumps are not marked correctlly, and because of the incorrect marking a driver does not put in the extra anti-gel stuff, and then he gells or freezes, can he sue the owner of the pump and the BioDiesel company for not forcing the proper labling? Seems to me that impropper labeling and/or false advertisting leaves them open to huge liablilty problems. Layoutshooter
 

gotta go

Veteran Expediter
If the pumps are not marked correctlly, and because of the incorrect marking a driver does not put in the extra anti-gel stuff, and then he gells or freezes, can he sue the owner of the pump and the BioDiesel company for not forcing the proper labling? Seems to me that impropper labeling and/or false advertisting leaves them open to huge liablilty problems. Layoutshooter

How do you prove that's the reason you gelled?
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Check the fuel for evidence of anti-gel products. I use it on EVERY fill up in the winter. I change the mix in extreme cold and if the Bio-Diesel is too high. I would think a good lab could give you the needed figures. Other than that, I don't know. I am just soooo tired of stuff like this. Layoutshooter
 
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