basic van outfitting

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
for those with two left thumbs. Starting with a bare Chevrolet 3500 extended van what are the steps you'd take to outfit it and in what order? Please be as brief and as simple with it as possible because it's for someone with two left thumbs and limited attention span for such stuff. At the same time please include specifics such as Acme Whizbang Insulation model xyz purchased from whatever store not just 'insulate the thing'. Thanks.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
for those with two left thumbs. Starting with a bare Chevrolet 3500 extended van what are the steps you'd take to outfit it and in what order? Please be as brief and as simple with it as possible because it's for someone with two left thumbs and limited attention span for such stuff. At the same time please include specifics such as Acme Whizbang Insulation model xyz purchased from whatever store not just 'insulate the thing'. Thanks.

You want part numbers or just catolgue numbers as well...:confused:

gee Leo....:rolleyes:
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I hope for something like go to Lowe's/Walmart/Sears/etc. and get insulation/containers/etc. that comes in sheets/rolls/pairs/etc. and last time cost $xx.xx per sheet/roll/pair/etc. actually. Nothing like the UPC number but enough details to know I'm on the right track to get the correct whatever it is. For instance, etrack for the floor/walls. Do you have it in both places or just one? Is it a different alphabet letter if it's in a van? Is there somewhere that will install it reasonably? I'll have to get some of it done for me as two left thumbs and lack of knowledge/ability/aptitude mechanically isn't a good thing but some of it I'm sure I can do.

What about a good insulating floor covering that can be rolled up out of the way for cargo and then easily put back after delivery?

Is there a self contained TV that has antenna etc. all in one? I'm sure having an external antenna would be better but that will come later.

What about fantastic fans? I'm thinking a pair with one on the back left corner and one on the right abouve the side door to create a flow through effect but is it better with two in line in the center rather than offset? Where can you get them and have them installed?

What's the latest on batteries/inverters/shore power etc.?

What else do I not even know I need to ask about yet?

That sort of stuff.
 

jrcarroll

Expert Expediter
If I were to set up a van here is my idea for insulation.
Find the nearest dealer and have it shot with spray foam.
Back in the '80's I did this type of insulating until my Dr told me to quit or die.
Chevy van extended should cost around $350.00 - 450.00.
It fills in all the cracks and crevices bonding to the walls and ceiling. The only draw back would be the doors. Due to its expansion and any moving parts. IE: locks. It is easily formed after hardening with sand paper or a wire brush.
Of course you would want to install your vents, wiring, antennas, Qcom, etc first.

Or trade in the van and buy one that is allready set up to go.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Leo,
With the hundreds of threads on the subject of vans, the insulating of vans, the setup of vans, the parts and material used for vans;

the word searchcomes to mind.

I did just that a few weeks ago, spent two hours searching through the threads to find info, the funny thing is it works.

I will make this suggestion again;

The mods/admins need to sit down and compile a list of relative threads to help newbies with these subjects like van setups. One sticky thread controlled by the admins that is read only with all the links listed by subject. The threads themselves are all locked. Many many websites do this and I can not see why it can't be done here to help with these common questions.
 
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LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Yes, I'm also doing searches but many of those threads are above post grad level and I'm looking for basic stuff and simpler. Thanks for the suggestion.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Yes, I'm also doing searches but many of those threads are above post grad level and I'm looking for basic stuff and simpler. Thanks for the suggestion.

Leo,
That has been my point with the "search and you will find" style of help you and others keep telling people. Now you may see what I mean when someone who has little knowledge of the industry or the technology tries to navigate through the search results and gets frustrated just to the point of giving up.

As for post grad stuff, come on...read man, read.... there is a lot of very basic stuff floating around here.
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
Ok its not rocket science here... I use bubble foil backed insulation over blue 3/4 inch foam board insulation that i bought at Home Depot to insulate from the back of the front seats to the 3rd roof bow. that is covered in 1/4 inch luann plywood. from there back the cargo area is covered in just the foil backed bubble insulation.

My bed is a 3/4 inch by 39 inch piece of ply wood cut at 17 inchs the length of the board and a piano hinge lets it fold so i can handle 2 52 in skids. That board sits on 3/4 inch by 9 inch by the length of the van boards that are secured to toe wheelwells and a few other connecting points. E-track is mounted on those boards. I have a twin size bed.

The floor is set up with E-track down the center, and 15/32st plywood scewed to the floor on each side of the e-track.

I pulled the pass seat and installed a cabinet that i built out of 3/4 in partical board to hold the frig, microwave and TV.

there is more like heat and AC in here but this should get you going... the key is to make it work for you...no matter what anyone else has done....
 
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Jack_Berry

Moderator Emeritus
do not use spray in foam leo, it adds weight. it makes it quiet but heavier.

the truck came bare except for a 1" hdf floor board. coming out for a 1/2" piece. added alloc flooring to make the frt slide easier.

i used 2 sided industrial velcro at the top of the frame. then unrolled the bubble wrap insulation and applied it to the tape....maybe i had help. bubble wrap under the floor is a good idea.

then i added 1" blue single sided foam board. then took it out as i needed the room for storage.

if you want 12v electronics add a battery to the frame. still looking into that.

here look at these............
load area walls made from a 4x8 cut down at the lumber yard.
fordsidewall.jpg


bed goes across the 2 x 4's
007.jpg


with one ski the bed can be moved forward and the skid is at the very back. with 2 skids the beds can be stacked over the white pipe frame

003.jpg


008.jpg


the mattresses were from mattress factory whse. the frame is 3/4 plywood. the red box, we have 3, are from ikea.

the clothes go into those blue bags which are a new product from sc johnson, ziploc flexible totes. there are 2 sizes xxl and xl. the xl will takes 3 pr shorts, and 5 polo ****s with undearwear and socks. enough to get you thru whatever.

look for a pm.
 
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chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
After see ing the pics of Jacks van, mine is set up about the same way. except a bit bigger bed. And no pass seat.

As for power for all of the "toys", I have 2 6 volt golf cart batteries, a 3000 watt inverter and a battery isolator to seperate the starting battery from the accessory batteries as to not draw the starting battery dead. I also have a 2000 want gen/inverter to run the AC unit when its needed....
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I was thinking of that 1" board insulation as the base, cut to fit between the spars in the cargo area and roof and attached with some sort of tube adhesive. Then take some sort of rolls of insulation, I don't really know what yet, and cover forming a sealed barrier over the sheet insulation.

For the plywood for the floor is it better to go with hardwood plywood or standard plywood? Is 1/2" thick enough or is 3/4" better? Do you put plywood all the way back to the point of touching the doors when they close or do you leave a few inches at the back so the 8' extends far enough forward to take care of 2 skids? Do you secure it to the floor with screws? How do you know where not to put screws so you don't cut through an electric or fuel line?

Is it safe to have your hotel power batteries in the cargo area? How large an inverter do you need if you are willing to unplug tv, pc and fridge when you want to microwave so it's an either/or and not all running at once? What brand is the best inverter? Are there any brands of batteries or inverters to avoid?
 

Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Please be as brief and as simple with it as possible because it's for someone with two left thumbs and limited attention span for such stuff.

A person with the above handicaps should probably not attempt to build an expedite van or drive one. Buy a used van or a new one with an aftermarket setup and put a driver in it.

I have a friend with two left thumbs, one index finger and a limited attention span.

How do you know where not to put screws so you don't cut through an electric or fuel line?

If you see or think you see a brake, fuel or electric line don't put a screw into it. Same holds true for fuel tanks, tires and helping hands.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I used a combination of board foam and spray canned foam (doesn't add that much weight) and Reflectix bubble-pack foam from Lowes. There are two kinds of spray-on foam, Closed-Cell and Open-Cell. Closed-Cell foam is high density, rigid foam when cured. Open-Cell foam is lightweight, flexible and carries the same properties as cellulose and fiberglass insulation when cured. The Dow Chemical Great Stuff Cracks and Gaps Foam Insulating Sealant is closed-cell, dense, rigid foam, paintable, sandable. The Dow Chemical Great Stuff Window & Door Insulating Foam Sealant is an open-cell, lightweight, foam. Both are moisture and air-migration resistant. Closed-Cell foam has twice the R-value of Open-Cell foam, which is why you need the Reflectix to add to the R-value seal it all in.

Reflectix alone has a really low R-value, something like R-4, when it is applied in contact with a surface, as would be the case in a van. It's like an R-15 when installed in an attic, stapled to the 2x6's that line the roof, so that it's got several inches between the roof and the insulation. But when used in a van in conjunction with polystyrene and canned foam, will add valuable R-values, and will become the primary moisture and air-migration barrier (as long as each and every seam is sealed with foil tape).

Polystyrene Foam board 1/2"
Canned Spray Foam (Windows and Door)
3M Spray Adhesive (77 and/or 90 - I used both for different functions and locations)
Loctite Power Grab All Purpose White Construction Adhesive (calking tube, so you'll need a calking gun)
Foil tape (the thin stuff, not the insulated stuff that you'd use on an HVAC air duct). Duck Brand, or, Reflectix now also makes foil tape for the Reflectix insulation.

Be sure to use a combination of board and canned foam to ensure that every possible void is completely filled. Be careful in the doors because of mechanical issues with the locks, obviously. Cut a board to fit a void, and then place it in the void, holding it in place by either spray adhesive or Loctite adhesive. Once in place, fill in the rest of the void with canned foam. Once the entire thing is insulated, cover it all with Reflectix, making sure to seal every seam. Leave no bare metal, or as little as possible. No point in wearing a heavy winter coat if you don't button it up, or in wearing fingerless winter gloves.

Allow about $600 and five days to properly insulate the thing. Any shortcuts and you'll pay dearly for it. If you're going to live in an iron box, you might as well make it livable.


"For the plywood for the floor is it better to go with hardwood plywood or standard plywood? Is 1/2" thick enough or is 3/4" better?"

Standard 1/2" (which will be something like 9/16 in reality) is fine. After installing it, make sure you give it 2-4 healthy coats of Minwax Polycrylic. Half an hour between coats, then let it dry overnight. Allows you to keep it clean, as oil spills won't immediately soak into the wood. Also, the combination of polyurethane and acrylic, as opposed to one or the other, gives the finish a hard surface that resists all but a nail sticking out of the bottom of a skid, but also gives it a unique property of being easy to slide stuff on when you want to slide it, but it "grabs" the skid and won't let it move around while driving. Clean and reapply a couple of coats every 6-12 months.

"Do you put plywood all the way back to the point of touching the doors when they close or do you leave a few inches at the back so the 8' extends far enough forward to take care of 2 skids?"

You want plywood deck wherever you have a skid. In my van, between the closed rear doors and the bunk, there is exactly 108 inches of plywood, since some of the automotive skids are oversize, and for the really odd skids that you run across now and then. The few inches at the back is where a forklift operator can do the most damage. Moot, I think, has a cross-wise length of E-Track at the very end of his van at the doors, and then has plywood from that point forward. It's an excellent idea, as the metal E-Track helps protect the wood decking, and also gives you another place to secure an E-Track strap. I don't have that, and I have had a couple of forklift operators actually stick the forks into the edge of the plywood, like sticking a fork into a biscuit to open it up for butter and jelly. Bondo, a power sander, and a fresh coat of Pylocrylic fixes it, but a row of E-Track would have prevented it.


"Do you secure it to the floor with screws? How do you know where not to put screws so you don't cut through an electric or fuel line?"

Yes, with self-tapping screws, about 2 inches long should do it. Take a quick survey under the van and look for fuel lines, fuel tanks, and electrical lines, then hope for the best. Most vans, when you put the screws along the outer edges of the plywood, you will not be screwing into anything that you shouldn't. But take a quick look underneath before you start juuuuust to make sure.

"Is it safe to have your hotel power batteries in the cargo area?"

Depends. If it's AGM or Gel batteries, absolutely safe. If it's sealed maintenance-free batteries, it's safe, but these can outgas if charged at too high a voltage. If they are regular batteries that will boil, spit and spill when charged, the kind that you have to regularly add water to, absolutely unsafe, as the outgassed hydrogen gas is just daring you to show it a spark.

"How large an inverter do you need if you are willing to unplug tv, pc and fridge when you want to microwave so it's an either/or and not all running at once?"

Depends on the power requirements of your microwave. If you have an 1800 watt microwave and a 1500 watt inverter, you can unplug stuff all day long and it still won't work. har, har, har. The power consumption of the microwave (or whatever you have that draws the most power) is the primary factor in determining the inverter size. When I first got one we were doing a lot of stuff out in the field with things like corded power circular saws, too far for an extension cord to reach, so I needed a 3000 watt inverter to handle the 2500 watt draw of some of the power tools. I no longer need one of that size. Check the microwave to see it's electrical wattage consumption. The wattage it consumes is different than the cooking wattage. It may say "1800 watts of cooking power", but it my be drawing 2200 watts from the electrical outlet. The metal label on the back of the microwave or inside the door will tell you the wattage. For compact microwaves, you can usually add about 500 watts to the cooking power (output power) to get the power consumption wattage. A full size microwave (1.6 to 2.2 cu ft) will generally draw at least 1800 watts and have 1250 watts of cooking power, a mid size (1.1 cu ft) will generally be 1500 watts and have 1000 watts of cooking power, and a compact microwave (.7 cu ft, room for a 10" dinner plate) will draw 1200-1400 watts and have 700-900 watts of cooking power.

One thing about microwaves, wattage draw is directly related to overall cooking times, and thus overall amp draw. The larger, higher wattage microwaves will draw a lot of power at once, but it will cook quickly. Lower wattage microwaves will draw much less power, but for a much longer cooking time, since the lower wattage causes them to take longer to cook. I have a small microwave that has 900 watts of cooking power. It draws 1200 watts of power from the electrical outlet. Directions on a package of frozen broccoli and cheese sauce may say cook for 4 minutes, but that assumes a full-power microwave. With mine, it takes more like 10 minutes. So, 1200 watts is 10 amps at 120 volts, and 100 amps at 12 volts. For 10 minutes that's about 17 amp hours drawn from the batteries. A full size microwave drawing 1800 watts of power is 15 amps at 120 volts, 150 amps at 12 volts, and for 4 minutes that's just 10 amp hours. So, the more power a microwave has, the faster it will cook and the less overall amps it will draw. The question is, can your batteries take such a significant power draw even for just a few minutes? A 150 amp draw is a serious amp draw. If they aren't specifically designed for high amp draws, the answer is no, so you may be better off with less power being drawn for a longer period of time. Not that a 100 amp draw is something to be dismissed. It's not, but at least a high quality hybrid battery can handle that easier than a 150 amp draw.

A full-power microwave will have a much higher amp draw, and will thus require batteries that have very thick plates. You need true solid lead plate deep cycle batteries to use a full-power microwave. Lower powered microwaves will have a lower amp draw, but for a longer time, so you can get away with using hybrid "marine" batteries to a degree.

"What brand is the best inverter? Are there any brands of batteries or inverters to avoid?"

Tricky question. The "best" inverter is something by Outback Power, but it'll cost you dearly. Next best is Xantrex. A Xantrex inverter will also cost you dearly, but it'll be pocket change compared to a high end Outback Power inverter. Forget I mentioned Outback Power. Xantrex is in the price range of most other pure sine wave inverters. Outback Power is not.

Pure sine wave is better than modified sine wave (otherwise known as pulse-width modulation, or PWM). Microwaves will cook quicker, motors will run cooler and quieter, everything runs more efficiently on pure sine wave. A clock on a microwave cannot keep anywhere close to accurate time with a modified sine wave inverter, since the clock uses the 60 Hertz pulses of real electricity to keep time, something that modified sine wave electrical current doesn't have.

I have a Cobra 1500 watt inverter that works well enough. I really should get that AIMS brand pure sine wave inverter repaired or replaced, though, since modified sine wave cannot be good for the fridge compressor, among other things. As for as POS brands of inverters, Cobra is a good one. Stay away from just about every other brand you can find at a truck stop. Trip-Lite is also a very good brand of inverter (I think Ray has those at Espar in Romulus), certainly far better than the Cobra, IMHO. AIMS is good (inverters2us.com), but I've had one go bad and I know someone else who has had two bad, but I know several others who have had no problems at all with them for years. I can highly recommend them, but just not without slight reservation.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I'm thinking of going up to Ray for a fair amount of this stuff. I believe they know what they are doing and are honest so they should be a good place for me to get a lot of what I need. I've already swapped emails with him regarding Fantastic fans, inverters, batteries and a heater. I'm looking at an Engel for my "refrigerator". Rumor has it they are highly efficient and miserly with power. I've got to figure out what the most power efficient lighting is for when I'm sitting. The insulating job sounds like it's going to be significantly larger than I imagined.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I'm thinking of going up to Ray for a fair amount of this stuff. I believe they know what they are doing and are honest so they should be a good place for me to get a lot of what I need. I've already swapped emails with him regarding Fantastic fans, inverters, batteries and a heater. I'm looking at an Engel for my "refrigerator". Rumor has it they are highly efficient and miserly with power. I've got to figure out what the most power efficient lighting is for when I'm sitting. The insulating job sounds like it's going to be significantly larger than I imagined.
When I insulated my first one (that short wheelbase E-350), and I didn't use canned or board foam, just the Reflectix and the foil tape. I was going to insulate it right there in the parking lot of Lowes, bing, bang, done. That way, if I needed anything, I could run right in and grab it. Five days later I finished insulating it.

On the next one I knew what I was up against, and also used the board and canned foam, and it still took 5 days to do it.

As for lighting, I use a power strip and a couple of extension cords. I have several of those small fluorescent lights, one 13" light above me, on the ceiling right between the seats, so that I get good light while on the computer. It's an 8 watt bulb, so it uses about half an amp when it's on, and it's on a lot. I also have two of those in the rear of the van, one above the rear doors and on on the side above the shelves. That's for when I need lots of light back there. There's also another one, 24" and 12 watts, that's on the side right above my head over the bunk. If the one above the computer doesn't give me enough light, like if I'm preparing something to eat, that one will add more than enough to it. I rarely have all 4 of them on, but when I do they all give off more than enough light to do whatever I want.

The ones I have are like this one, only black.
Portfolio at Lowe's: 13" Utility Flourescent Under Cabinet Fixture
The ones I have, you can string them together, so that you oly need to plug just one of them into an electrical socket. The rest draw power from the interconnections. Can't turn them on and off remotely, tho.

I've also got one of these:
Feit Electric at Lowe's: 9-Watt Flourescent Under Cabinet Light
It's the size of a hockey puck, and is 120 volt, plugs into an outlet. You can also string these together. They come in a 3-pack, or I got mine in a single pack. I use it right above the dome light, to use when driving, or when I need lots of extra light in the "living room" area. It's totally redundant and duplicates the vehicle's dome light, but I have a reason for having it there, a reason most would not have. Regardless, it's a lighting option that's worth looking into. And it's only 9 watts.

Better lighting would be pure 12-volt lighting, but then you need to wire in a ballast. More trouble than I wanted to mess with.

Most efficient lighting is LED lights, as they use almost no power. But they can be spotty, as in a spot light, and can be somewhat harsh lighting. I figured at half an amp, the (relatively) warm, relatively even lighting of a small fluorescent would do fine, and it does.

One key to mounting a light that you'll have on most of the time, like when you're on the computer or whatever, it to mount it so that while you are on the computer the light isn't shining into the corner of your eye. With the Portfolio lighting in the first link, for example, the light will mostly flow downward, but if you enlarge the picture, you will see that along one edge is the clear bulb cover and on the other edge is the lamp fixture with the on/off button. The light will flow downward, but also more in the direction of that bulb cover. If I mount it with the light flowing forward, the light is in my eyes unless I wear a baseball cap. Turn it around and face rearward, I still get plenty of light at the computer, but it no longer glares in my eyes. Just something to keep in mind as you mount these things. :)
 

Jack_Berry

Moderator Emeritus
bed bath and beyond has 5 led lights that can either be velcroed in place like the one i have over the driver or can be screwed into the ceiling into the metal ribs. 3 packs are maybe 20 bucks. they use 3 AAA batteries. they can be focused down or clicked to a 45 deg angle in two directions. they have two levels high and dimmer but with three lights. batteries last a long time.

just bought at true value on close out a 72 bulb trouble light. three hrs charging and 5 hours use. you can use eithetr all the lights or half of them. in a space shuttle envirom=nment of reflectix it should be overwhelming.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Reflectix alone has a really low R-value, something like R-4, when it is applied in contact with a surface, as would be the case in a van. It's like an R-15 when installed in an attic, stapled to the 2x6's that line the roof, so that it's got several inches between the roof and the insulation.

So would it be better to take sheet insulation like this 3/4 In. 4 Ft. x 8 Ft. R5.0 R-Matte Plus 3 Insulation - W-N5075X at The Home Depot and put it onto the spars/ribs creating that air gap similar to the one between the 2x6's and roof in a house and then on top of this add either Reflectix 4 Ft. X 25 Ft. Double Reflective Insulation - BP48025 at The Home Depot or Ultra Touch 4 Ft. x 24 Ft. Radiant Barrier - 30000-11424 at The Home Depot to cover and seal it?
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I'm interested in all options but have to get more information on it all. I don't know what kind of generator Terry has or if it would adapt to the Chevy or not.
 

FIS53

Veteran Expediter
For my gm van I did the foil bubble stuff on the walls and ceiling followed by cut styro sheets fit in between the ribbing. Over that I used a thin styro sheet over the ribs with coreplast sheeting covering all of it (coreplast is corrugated plastic sheets). The core plast is usually white but other colours are available if you can find them, very flexible, easy to screw thru and to cut. I marked out all the ribs so I could attach my anchors for strapping through the stuff (cut outs used). For the flooring I used 5/8" plywood gos (good one side) and used underpad for carpeting under it for isolation. This gave it a bit of insulation under the wood allowing for a warmer floor when using heat as a lot less heat loss thru the flooring.
All places where the corplast met another piece was sealed with metal tape.
I also ran a hose connected to the heater outlets (floor ones) up front to the rear and directed under the bed and directed heat to the floor outlets while unloading or waiting or whatever before I shutdown for the nite.
I found I could heat this with very little heat output and could actually keep it warm even with a couple of candles (not recommended).
Rob
 
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