Bad brake job, have some Q's..

[DannyD]

I'm not mechanically inclined so I'm wondering about something. I just got a rear brake done & here's my challenge.

Yesterday I took my van about 30 miles to get a bulkhead installed. Near the end of the trip I started smelling something burning. I had thought it was the engine. At the destination I opened the hood & couldn't see anything that looked like it was burning. The guy who I went to meet said the smell didn't seem to be coming from the engine. So he walked to the back. Then he asked if I'd had new brakes installed. Since I had, that sounded about right. That it was the brakes.

He told me to go back to the shop, which I'll be doing. He also explained about em being to tight or something, which I didn't quite get, but seems logical from what I can gather. What I'm wondering here is would anyone have an idea of what he was referring to? I know I was told once, but sometimes having it in writing can help me understand better.

Also, I don't want the mechanic saying there's a bit of time needed & the brakes will be fine, anything like that. I don't think he will, but ya never know. So also wanted to ask if there's any kind of time frame to let em adjust. I'm also asking this because on the way back today, the smell wasn't nearly as bad as it was yesterday. So maybe there actually is a break in period.

So is this just a matter of the mechanic adjusting the rotors or would he have to get new ones?

Thanx in advance

 

[davekc]

Never heard of brakes needing to burn to be adjusted? Might have been the bearings were too tight and they were smoking.
Have to go back and adjust them properly if they aren't damaged. If so, replace the bearings again.

 

[iceroadtrucker]

If the Rotors are warped that could cause the pads to rube
If the Mechanic failed to bleed the brakes that could cause the Pads to rube as well. Be to tight in both cases.

Id get it check out now and drive very little ta none till you do.
Brake fade can occur if the Brakes are overheating and if your in a van well Brake fluid is used vice air. Need not say more on that.
I'm just suggesting. Be careful and be Safe.

Good Luck.

 

[greg334]

Danny,
Two questions;

What type of vehicle? Van, Truck, car?

Do you have rear disc brakes or drums? You did mention the rear.

OK there is no adjustment period for brakes, the mechanic (if he is any good) would have allowed the self-adjusters to take care of any adjusting of the brakes. If he manually adjusted them, then it is his fault and a poor mechanic to boot.

The biggest issue with self-adjusters is the hardware that needs to be cleaned or if the van has over 200k on it, replaced with new hardware.

Assuming they are the rear drum brakes, if the brakes are smelling enough where you can smell them while you were driving, then;

1 - the brakes were installed wrong

2 - hardware was not replaced or cleaned enough

Or both.

The first thing that comes to mind is if the brakes heated up enough where you can smell them burning while driving, they will need replacing including the drum and hardware.

Assuming that you have a rear brake system that is disc, then you either have a frozen Caliper which means that the caliper, hardware and rotor (of course the pads) will have to be replaced but also thinking about it, if there is an internal emergency brake system that could be a problem, all related hardware, the little drum and shoes will need to be replaced.

As Dave mentioned, the bearings will also have to be replaced. Believe me you do not want to be tooling down the road enjoying the nice day and have your rear tire pass you up.

 

[DannyD]

Dave, Ice, & Greg:

Thanx for the comments. This is the exact kind of help I was hoping to get.

2000 Ford E-250- 150K miles

I'm not sure if it's disc or drums. I paid $220 for the job. Not sure if that tells ya anything or not.

Ok, so no adjustment time. That helps.

I'm leary if he did the job that bad to begin with about having him do the fix. I'm looking to sign on w/ someone new & they've already inspected my vehicle once. They said I needed brakes & a bulkhead. I'd rather not go down there if the brakes aren't done right. Then again, maybe it would be better to just pay them to fix it (if they will) cuz then I'd know it would be done right & up to the company's standards.

So if it's bearings I might get charged again? My thinking is I paid to have my brakes fixed. The guy is a pretty decent guy, so I'm guessing he'll make good. But ya just never know cuz I've never had him refix anything. So I want to be prepared in case he's like "well, we didn't do this or that so it'll be extra $$"

In which case it might just be better to have someone else do it.

Greg said:The first thing that comes to mind is if the brakes heated up enough where you can smell them burning while driving, they will need replacing including the drum and hardware.

So this part above, is that something he should correct on his own at no charge? Or if he replaced the rotors there's more than that was wrong & I should pay more?

Danny,
Two questions;

What type of vehicle? Van, Truck, car?

Do you have rear disc brakes or drums? You did mention the rear.

OK there is no adjustment period for brakes, the mechanic (if he is any good) would have allowed the self-adjusters to take care of any adjusting of the brakes. If he manually adjusted them, then it is his fault and a poor mechanic to boot.

The biggest issue with self-adjusters is the hardware that needs to be cleaned or if the van has over 200k on it, replaced with new hardware.

Assuming they are the rear drum brakes, if the brakes are smelling enough where you can smell them while you were driving, then;

1 - the brakes were installed wrong

2 - hardware was not replaced or cleaned enough

Or both.

The first thing that comes to mind is if the brakes heated up enough where you can smell them burning while driving, they will need replacing including the drum and hardware.

Assuming that you have a rear brake system that is disc, then you either have a frozen Caliper which means that the caliper, hardware and rotor (of course the pads) will have to be replaced but also thinking about it, if there is an internal emergency brake system that could be a problem, all related hardware, the little drum and shoes will need to be replaced.

As Dave mentioned, the bearings will also have to be replaced. Believe me you do not want to be tooling down the road enjoying the nice day and have your rear tire pass you up.

 

[greg334]

Danny,
The van has drum brakes, so it is easy to replace the shoes and clean everything up.

Well whether you want to pay or not depends on the guy who did the work. If I did the work and I screwed up or if something like this happened, I would foot the bill to make it right but it all depends.

 

[Moot]

The biggest issue with self-adjusters is the hardware that needs to be cleaned or if the van has over 200k on it, replaced with new hardware.

The other problem with self-adjusters is the little shaft and star wheel can be installed wrong. Every time you hit the brakes, the shoes will ratchet out and stay in contact with the drum. Please don't ask how I know this.

If the mechanic screwed up he should make it right.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

it could be as simple as the mechanic got his greasy hands all over the shoe/pads and that is the burning you are smelling....it will either burn off or glaze the shoes/pads and they'll be no good.

 

[The Enemy]

it could be as simple as the mechanic got his greasy hands all over the shoe/pads and that is the burning you are smelling....it will either burn off or glaze the shoes/pads and they'll be no good.

If the rotors/drums are glazed but not WARPED, you can have them cut. As far as pads/shoes go, if those are glazed I usually take a wire wheel and lightly touch the pad surface, which will take off a tiny layer of material. I had always done it this way on my road course racing cars if I glazed the pads during a heat.

 

[greg334]

If the rotors/drums are glazed but not WARPED, you can have them cut. As far as pads/shoes go, if those are glazed I usually take a wire wheel and lightly touch the pad surface, which will take off a tiny layer of material. I had always done it this way on my road course racing cars if I glazed the pads during a heat.

Even if they don't look warped, they lose some of their metallurgical quality that helps them last by being overheated and not allowed to cool down properly. They should be replaced if he doesn't want problems in the long term. The shoes may be damaged, the material, even though maybe tough can also wear at a higher rate than normal just through normal usage after being overheated.

Cutting the glaze would be done if there isn't a lip on the drum or any groves, a lot of shops will just cut the glaze regardless what is needed.

Just another FYI, you want thick surfaces on the drums on the vans because of the weight you haul, even empty. The thicker drums dissipate the heat a bit better and heat equals wear.

 

[chefdennis]

Depending on just how good the mechanic is, one very common problem that happens with DRUM brakes on the rear axle is that the brake shoes get reversed...the friction material of the shoes are 2 different lengths, there is a "primary shoe" (mounts to the real of the axle and the friction material is longer) and a secondary shoe ( mounts to the front of the axle and the friction material is shorter)...

As has been said, drum brakes are "self adjusting", but the adjusters do need serviced and installed properly....there is also a "primary" adjustment done manually by the mechanic, and then the final adjustment is done by the "self adjusters" and continues to adjust the rear drum brakes either each time you use the "parking brake" or use the braking while backing up and a few quick "pumps" of the petal....unless you drove more then you have indicated, i am with Enemy...chances are the drums aren't warped beyond the need of a small "turning" of them to square them again, and the shoes should be able to be "De-glazed" with no problem..

 

[iceroadtrucker]

So is this just a matter of the mechanic adjusting the rotors or would he have to get new ones?

Thanks in advance[/QUOTE]

I caught what U said Rotors.

No fighting contest either, if its the rotors they sometimes can be trued if not too thin. Other wise replace. Also if the system wasn't properly bleed that can do it as well. If the Calipers are bad then that can also cause a problem.

If by chance you got Drums well then the automatic slack adjuster can be readjusted using a star wrench. also sometimes with drums if that be the case a groove will wear where the pads sits and can cause the pad to rub if that be the case the drum sometimes be true but might need to be replaced.

But going off the first you did say you had Rotors and by U saying that well I assume a mechanic told you what you had
good luck and be safe.

 

[DannyD]

I took it back. He said that there was a coating on there & it had to wear off. He did look under there & kinda shouted out "no, these look fine!!" while he was looking under there.

When he got back up from under the van he told me if I have any problems to bring it back. I didn't get the feeling I was being blown off either. Just one of those vibes. And as I mentioned earlier he is a pretty decent guy. Also, he asked if it was as bad this morning & while I didn't drive it very far to his place, the trip on the way to get my bulkead installed was a lot worse than on the way home. It was a 30 mile trip each way.

So what I'm going to do here is let it be inspected by the company mechanic. I'm figuring he'll let me know for sure.

I appreciate the help here. At least I felt a little bit informed when I went to talk to the guy. So thanx a ton for the help.

 

[greg334]

Coating on what?

 

[DannyD]

Coating on what?

Coating on the parts he just installed. Which if I understand this right, means the coating on the drums.

If he gave me a line, I'm not sure what to say. There is less of a smell. I haven't driven it much today as his shop is about 1/2 mile from my house. Maybe I should take it for a drive & see though. My thinking was to have it inspected by another mechanic & he'd let me know if the first one was shooting straight or evading doing a fix up.

 

[greg334]

Well when I do any brake work, everything gets a good wash in brake cleaner. If there are new drums/rotors, they get cleaned also. The protective coating on the drum/rotor is there to prevent rust and that's it, but the practice to remove the coating is one step in ensuring that the right habits take place, not lazy habits.

It is like this Danny, last year my wifes van had a gas leak. I know it had a leak and where it was, so while I was on the road, I had her take it to a very reliable mechanic who came recommended by someone i trusted. They didn't find the leak, but it was kind of obvious with a four inch wet spot on the fuel tank. So the van went back into service until my wife had another "honey it's leaking" moment in which her sister insisted that it get repaired right, so after making a big deal out of it, I consented, seeing I was 1000 miles away I had no choice. No one called me to ask me where the leak was or why it was leaking, instead the mechanic assumed that he knew how to fix the problem and told my wife's sister that "the muffler heated up the fuel tank and caused the smell like it was leaking fuel" - this is from a 40 year on the job mechanic who owns a large shop. Never mind that the muffler is on one side of the van and the tank is on the other side with lot of stuff in the middle. So the muffler was replaced, but the leak wasn't fixed. When my wife got the van back with the explanation (and the $340 bill) I lost it and I came home to get the thing fixed right. 15 minutes of actual work, it was fixed. Oh and the muffler which there was nothing wrong with it was not just replace, he used the old clamps and even dented it up by beating it place.

 

[DannyD]

Hey Greg,

Ya bring up an point that reminds me of a computer friend I have. This guy is one of the top few programmers in the world. He explained why programmers for companies often stick around even if the programmer isn't really that good. The reason is as long as the programmer is better than his manager (who's often not a programmer) how's his manager going to know any different? The programmer can say/make up a challenge as to why there's a delay in a program coming out & the manager isn't going to know enough to really do a lot about it.

This is sort of the situation I'm in mechanically here. I "think" he was straight up w/ me. But how am I to know for sure since I don't have the knowledge he does? I could learn more about engines & such, but they really don't interest me enough that I'd be passionate about it. So on a time/efficiency basis for the few times I need something mechanical done, it would be a lot of effort into what might be saving me $200 or so.

I've been lucky w/ mechanics for the most part. For a long time a friend of my mom's did the work. He's now in his 80s & wanted to slow down some. So I then took it to this guy the last few years. I think this is the 2nd time in my life where I've really questioned a mechanic. Even then, he may not have even rooked me. I wouldn't know if he's got lazy habits or if this was maybe an off day for the guy. He's done a lot of work for me & this is the first time I've wondered if he did a good job.

What I remember was the first time I went in there I thought I needed a new alternator for my car. I took it in cuz he was the closest guy. What it was, was some cable came loose & he didn't even charge me. Also in there somewhere my check engine light came on & he told me it was cuz my gas cap wasn't screwed on tight enough. I never could figure that one out, but he reset the light & the car's been fine. So basically I do trust the guy.

Then again, ya never know how someone is gonna react when ya say I think ya need to do this one over. That's sort of a different ballgame there. That's where thanx to this board I at least was able to go in there & not be a total idiot. At the same time, I still don't know more than him or you guys about drums. Add to that I figure the mechanic for Load 1 can be sort of the final decider of if it was done right or not. Those were sort of the things going thru my mind as I weighed out what to do.

I def. appreciate your help. I also think it's pretty neat that you have a good understanding of engines & such. It seems as if ya enjoy it, so over the years I'm guessing you've had fun w/ em & also made or saved quite a lot of money in there.

 

[greg334]

Danny,
Thanks for all of that.

I have an odd question, I know you answered this but think about it, why don't you do the work yourself?

It's actually really easy to do, nothing to brakes if you have someone to show you.

 

[Jimboree]

Danny,
Thanks for all of that.

I have an odd question, I know you answered this but think about it, why don't you do the work yourself?

It's actually really easy to do, nothing to brakes if you have someone to show you.

I'd have to agree with you Greag on disc brakes, however drum brakes are a little trickier.

 

[FIS53]

If they are drum brakes then adjustment is required every 20,000 miles (read the owners manual) as the auto adjusters just do not work fully or properly. I know this as I had to have my gm adjusted several times over 5 years. For some reason the auto adjusters just don't work as well as they should even though they have been in vehicles for over 40 years! So if they rear drums are replaced or turned or the shoes replaced then they should be adjusted to proper level and you'll know the difference in braking.
For disc braks then no adjustment required as the auto adjust on the fly. Can't think of any coating on the parts that would make a burning smell but if the mechanic got the parts dirty as others have mentioned then possibly.
Rob