Aux Batteries Questions

dc843

Expert Expediter
Researching
Okay so I'm looking into getting some auxiliary batteries for my sprinter than I can hook up an inverter too. want to power my phone charger, laptop charger, small fridge, and some fans. So its not a crazy amount of power I'm looking to use.

So I'm looking into semi truck batteries, where are some good places to get them?

Any other options for batteries?

How do I go about safely hooking them up to my vans batteries? Id hate to set the van on fire lol.

or any other advice on it would be appreciated!
 

Worn Out Manager

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
US Air Force
Okay so I'm looking into getting some auxiliary batteries for my sprinter than I can hook up an inverter too. want to power my phone charger, laptop charger, small fridge, and some fans. So its not a crazy amount of power I'm looking to use.

So I'm looking into semi truck batteries, where are some good places to get them?

Any other options for batteries?

How do I go about safely hooking them up to my vans batteries? Id hate to set the van on fire lol.

or any other advice on it would be appreciated!
Ok, all comes under the RV category. Sounds like you will need 4 6V batteries, hooked up parallel (I think) and a 1500W inverter if you are going to run a refrigerator

Sent from my XT1635-01 using EO Forums mobile app
 

dc843

Expert Expediter
Researching
Okay so I'm looking into getting some auxiliary batteries for my sprinter than I can hook up an inverter too. want to power my phone charger, laptop charger, small fridge, and some fans. So its not a crazy amount of power I'm looking to use.

So I'm looking into semi truck batteries, where are some good places to get them?

Any other options for batteries?

How do I go about safely hooking them up to my vans batteries? Id hate to set the van on fire lol.

or any other advice on it would be appreciated!
Ok, all comes under the RV category. Sounds like you will need 4 6V batteries, hooked up parallel (I think) and a 1500W inverter if you are going to run a refrigerator

Sent from my XT1635-01 using EO Forums mobile app
my fridge is only 65w, international has batteries for 67 bucks, is one semi battery not enough to power say 125w of power overnight? and when I hook them up do I just run the 16 gauge hot and ground cables connecting all batteries in a line with the inverter being at the end and the regular battery at the other end?
 

Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Okay so I'm looking into getting some auxiliary batteries for my sprinter than I can hook up an inverter too. want to power my phone charger, laptop charger, small fridge, and some fans. So its not a crazy amount of power I'm looking to use.

So I'm looking into semi truck batteries, where are some good places to get them?

Any other options for batteries?

How do I go about safely hooking them up to my vans batteries? Id hate to set the van on fire lol.

or any other advice on it would be appreciated!
Ok, all comes under the RV category. Sounds like you will need 4 6V batteries, hooked up parallel (I think) and a 1500W inverter if you are going to run a refrigerator

Sent from my XT1635-01 using EO Forums mobile app
my fridge is only 65w, international has batteries for 67 bucks, is one semi battery not enough to power say 125w of power overnight? and when I hook them up do I just run the 16 gauge hot and ground cables connecting all batteries in a line with the inverter being at the end and the regular battery at the other end?
Turtle will be around soon, I'm sure.

He's the battery expert.
 
Last edited:

dc843

Expert Expediter
Researching
Does anyone know of some sort of battery that I can plug into the cigarette outlet to charge while the van runs? since this isn't my van and I don't have a lot of money right now to set it up all professionally.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Oh, you're not going to like most of what I'm going to say. But it will be fun, entertaining, and educational! :D

Truck batteries and marine batteries are exactly the same, the only difference being the terminals. They are both "hybrid" starting/cycling batteries, meaning they have thicker lead plates than a starting battery, but thinner plates than a true deep cycle battery. They are roughly 100 amp hours batteries, measured at the 20 hour rate, which is at a 5 amp draw.

Because of something called the Peukert Effect, the rate of amp draw from a battery is very much like the fuel economy of a vehicle, where the faster you draw amps the worse your fuel mileage (available amps) will be. If you can draw amps out at a 5 amp rate, you'll have 100 amps available. If you draw amps at a 2 amp rate you'll have more than 100 available, and if you draw out 10 amps you'll have considerably fewer amps available.

Amps x volts = Watts.

Watts / volts = amps.

125 Watts / 12 volts = 10.4 amps

Adding 10% for the inverter loss (1.04) and you're at a 11.46 amp draw.

That's a VERY high amp draw for a 100 Ah battery. And because you don't want to draw down the batteries more then 50% to keep their lifespan as long as possible, you'll need at least a 200 Ah battery (or battery bank) to last you 10 hours at an 11 amp draw.

An "only 65w" fridge is still about a 5.5 amp draw from a 12v battery (its also what those electric coolers like the Igloo coolers draw). That's the maximum sustained draw that a 100 Ah hybrid battery is designed to do. And even that's not really designed to be a virtually 24/7 draw. It's really more for the occasional 5 amp draw of a trolling motor or running lights for short periods of time (an hour here, an hour there). But if that's all you EVER connect to it, you'll be OK, and you'll get probably 36 months or more or of the battery. Increase that amp draw to 10 and you're looking at 12-18 months max before the battery loses all of its capacity. Double it to 200 Ah and you're looking at 18-24 months, and triple it to 300 Ah and you're at 36 months or more.

Using batteries with true deep cycle construction (not truck, not marine) with thick lead plates designed specifically for sustained amp draws will last much longer, perform more efficiently and week be more economical. Look for floor scrubber batteries, aerial lift batteries, golf cart batteries. These are true deep cycle batteries. Never skimp on tires or batteries. You get what you pay for.

When you plug your hair dryer into the electrical socket at home, you can plug it in professionally, or unprofessionally, but it gets plugged into the socket the same way regardless. Installing aux batteries are the same thing. You can install them professionally or unprofessionally, but the connections are exactly the same regardless. In the cable between the starting battery and the aux battery you want a battery isolator (or a battery combiner, depending on the type of alternator you have) so that when the ignition is off the starting battery and aux battery are no connected together (they are isolated from each other). That way when you are parked and running inverter loads you aren't putting the same amp draw stresses on a starting battery that's not at all designed for inverter loads. You will also need to ground the aux battery to the vehicle chassis.

Does anyone know of some sort of battery that I can plug into the cigarette outlet to charge while the van runs?
Lithium ion batteries, like the one in your smartphone, can be charged from the cigarette lighter socket. They make vehicle charges for that very purpose. Those AA and AAA rechargeable battery chargers, if they have a 12v plug, can be charged via the 12v socket.

Hey, I told you it would be entertaining.

But no, a 12v dash socket really can't be used to recharge an aux battery bank. You need at least a AWG 4 gauge cable (or thicker is better) from the alternator to the aux battery. The wires from the fuse block to the 12v dash socket are probably 14-18 gauge. Trying to charge a 100 Ah battery using those wires will result in at the very least a blown fuse, and likely a fire under the dash. I realize it's not your vehicle, but still. That would be embarrassing. Not to mention expensive. And maybe dangerous.

A 1500w inverter is going to require AWG 6 cable from the inverter to the battery bank, and that's assuming 3 feet or less. The longer the cable the more the voltage drop. Cables from the alternator to the aux battery will need to be much thicker. Don't even entertain the thought of using 16 gauge wire for that.
 
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dc843

Expert Expediter
Researching
Oh, you're not going to like most of what I'm going to say. But it will be fun, entertaining, and educational! :D

Truck batteries and marine batteries are exactly the same, the only difference being the terminals. They are both "hybrid" starting/cycling batteries, meaning they have thicker lead plates than a starting battery, but thinner plates than a true deep cycle battery. They are roughly 100 amp hours batteries, measured at the 20 hour rate, which is at a 5 amp draw.

Because of something called the Peukert Effect, the rate of amp draw from a battery is very much like the fuel economy of a vehicle, where the faster you draw amps the worse your fuel mileage (available amps) will be. If you can draw amps out at a 5 amp rate, you'll have 100 amps available. If you draw amps at a 2 amp rate you'll have more than 100 available, and if you draw out 10 amps you'll have considerably fewer amps available.

Amps x volts = Watts.

Watts / volts = amps.

125 Watts / 12 volts = 10.4 amps

Adding 10% for the inverter loss (1.04) and you're at a 11.46 amp draw.

That's a VERY high amp draw for a 100 Ah battery. And because you don't want to draw down the batteries more then 50% to keep their lifespan as long as possible, you'll need at least a 200 Ah battery (or battery bank) to last you 10 hours at an 11 amp draw.

An "only 65w" fridge is still about a 5.5 amp draw from a 12v battery (its also what those electric coolers like the Igloo coolers draw). That's the maximum sustained draw that a 100 Ah hybrid battery is designed to do. And even that's not really designed to be a virtually 24/7 draw. It's really more for the occasional 5 amp draw of a trolling motor or running lights for short periods of time (an hour here, an hour there). But if that's all you EVER connect to it, you'll be OK, and you'll get probably 36 months or more or of the battery. Increase that amp draw to 10 and you're looking at 12-18 months max before the battery loses all of its capacity. Double it to 200 Ah and you're looking at 18-24 months, and triple it to 300 Ah and you're at 36 months or more.

Using batteries with true deep cycle construction (not truck, not marine) with thick lead plates designed specifically for sustained amp draws will last much longer, perform more efficiently and week be more economical. Look for floor scrubber batteries, aerial lift batteries, golf cart batteries. These are true deep cycle batteries. Never skimp on tires or batteries. You get what you pay for.

When you plug your hair dryer into the electrical socket at home, you can plug it in professionally, or unprofessionally, but it gets plugged into the socket the same way regardless. Installing aux batteries are the same thing. You can install them professionally or unprofessionally, but the connections are exactly the same regardless. In the cable between the starting battery and the aux battery you want a battery isolator (or a battery combiner, depending on the type of alternator you have) so that when the ignition is off the starting battery and aux battery are no connected together (they are isolated from each other). That way when you are parked and running inverter loads you aren't putting the same amp draw stresses on a starting battery that's not at all designed for inverter loads. You will also need to ground the aux battery to the vehicle chassis.

Does anyone know of some sort of battery that I can plug into the cigarette outlet to charge while the van runs?
Lithium ion batteries, like the one in your smartphone, can be charged from the cigarette lighter socket. They make vehicle charges for that very purpose. Those AA and AAA rechargeable battery chargers, if they have a 12v plug, can be charged via the 12v socket.

Hey, I told you it would be entertaining.

But no, a 12v dash socket really can't be used to recharge an aux battery bank. You need at least a AWG 4 gauge cable (or thicker is better) from the alternator to the aux battery. The wires from the fuse block to the 12v dash socket are probably 14-18 gauge. Trying to charge a 100 Ah battery using those wires will result in at the very least a blown fuse, and likely a fire under the dash. I realize it's not your vehicle, but still. That would be embarrassing. Not to mention expensive. And maybe dangerous.

A 1500w inverter is going to require AWG 6 cable from the inverter to the battery bank, and that's assuming 3 feet or less. The longer the cable the more the voltage drop. Cables from the alternator to the aux battery will need to be much thicker. Don't even entertain the thought of using 16 gauge wire for that.
Yeah the more i went into it the more i saw i need to use deep cycle. But ill save that for down the line when i get my own van. Whats a good estimate of the total cost for a comfortable amount of battery? Ill do the math when its a reality.

Right now i just need to look into lithiun ion batteries. Only to charge my phone and laptop. Maybe small fan while vans not running.
 

geo

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Retired Expediter
US Navy
what I have done in past, had the truck battery's and aux battery's to run everything else .
had a switch so I could turn to starting battery's and start truck.
also had 2 solar pan to keep battery's charge's while setting
 
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dc843

Expert Expediter
Researching
with those lithium ion batteries they seem to only have usb slots is there a way to convert it to a 12v plug for my laptop charger? I believe the charger is 2amps.

also my friend loaned me this but its not working, but what about using one of these they are about 800w, get a 1000w inverter that could run from the cigarette lighter (if that's a thing, I have a 500w one now that does) and then let it charge up as it runs

Power Supplies - Shop The Best Deals For Jul 2017
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
with those lithium ion batteries they seem to only have usb slots is there a way to convert it to a 12v plug for my laptop charger? I believe the charger is 2amps.
Some of those come with cables (or you can buy one) that connects the battery pack directly to the laptop power socket to charge the laptop. You don't use the cable that comes with the laptop.

also my friend loaned me this but its not working, but what about using one of these they are about 800w, get a 1000w inverter that could run from the cigarette lighter (if that's a thing, I have a 500w one now that does) and then let it charge up as it runs

Power Supplies - Shop The Best Deals For Jul 2017
First, all batteries are designed for a purpose. They should not be repurposed to do something they aren't designed to do. Starting batteries are designed to start an engine. Flashlight batteries are designed for flashlights, and really any other low voltage, low current application. You wouldn't want to use a starting battery in your Maglite any more then you'd want to use just a snotload of flashlight batteries as your starting battery.

An uninterruptable power supply (UPS) is a battery designed specifically to provide consistent power, for VERY short periods of time, when the power grid fluctuates or the power goes out completely. Usually used with computers, it gives you enough time to close all open files and shut down the computer to prevent data loss.

The one you linked to is a 25-pound, 8 amp hour battery, designed to give you about 2 minutes of run time at full load, and about 8 minutes of time at half load. It is not designed, nor will it work, for household loads in an RV (expedite cargo van), much less be able to recharge a 12 or 18 amp hour laptop battery pack. It really isn't that much different than a Harley Davidson motorcycle battery in a fancy case with electrical plugs and flashing lights.

If you want house power in a van, you basically have 2 choices. One is a portable generator (with an external gas tank). Another is to install a house battery bank. If you go with a battery bank (aux battery, one, or many) you need to have batteries that are not only designed to do the job, but also with enough amp hour capacity to fulfill your amp hour requirements between full recharges.

If your amp requirements are very modest (cell phone, laptop, low amp fan) you can kind of make do and get away with li-on battery packs, at least in the short term. But long term it's a real-deal battery bank, or a generator, and ideally both.
 
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Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Since the OP doesn't own the van but could be thinking of buying a van in the future, a 12V to 12V battery charger might be the way to go. Easy to install and easy to remove. Get a pair of AGM batteries which should meet his immediate needs and expand later when he owns a van.

Another thought, and this needs some serious Turtle scrutiny; the OP has an inverter. Buy a 120V deep cycle battery charger and a pair of AGM batteries. Use the inverter to power the charger while driving to charge the house batteries. Possible? Practical?
 

dc843

Expert Expediter
Researching
Since the OP doesn't own the van but could be thinking of buying a van in the future, a 12V to 12V battery charger might be the way to go. Easy to install and easy to remove. Get a pair of AGM batteries which should meet his immediate needs and expand later when he owns a van.

Another thought, and this needs some serious Turtle scrutiny; the OP has an inverter. Buy a 120V deep cycle battery charger and a pair of AGM batteries. Use the inverter to power the charger while driving to charge the house batteries. Possible? Practical?

I'm curious about this too. Once I get my own van I'm going to make myself a suitable battery bank turtle, but for the temporary can I do something like moot said?
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Since the OP doesn't own the van but could be thinking of buying a van in the future, a 12V to 12V battery charger might be the way to go. Easy to install and easy to remove. Get a pair of AGM batteries which should meet his immediate needs and expand later when he owns a van.
Well, that
pretty much describes a house bank. Whether he uses a 12v to 12v charger or connects the house bank directly to vehicle's charging system, the connections are the same.

Another thought, and this needs some serious Turtle scrutiny; the OP has an inverter. Buy a 120V deep cycle battery charger and a pair of AGM batteries. Use the inverter to power the charger while driving to charge the house batteries. Possible? Practical?
What powers the inverter?
 

Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Since the OP doesn't own the van but could be thinking of buying a van in the future, a 12V to 12V battery charger might be the way to go. Easy to install and easy to remove. Get a pair of AGM batteries which should meet his immediate needs and expand later when he owns a van.
Well, that
pretty much describes a house bank. Whether he uses a 12v to 12v charger or connects the house bank directly to vehicle's charging system, the connections are the same.

Another thought, and this needs some serious Turtle scrutiny; the OP has an inverter. Buy a 120V deep cycle battery charger and a pair of AGM batteries. Use the inverter to power the charger while driving to charge the house batteries. Possible? Practical?
What powers the inverter?
The starting battery supplies power to the inverter while driving. Since he already has an inverter he isn't using I thought this could be a cheap, simple solution. It would probably require drilling a small hole through the firewall to run the inverter cables to the starting battery. The inverter could sit in the passenger footwell.
 
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