Assault and Battery

Streakn1 · Oct 4, 2006

Update to post "Almost got my A#%S kicked by JB Hunt driver":
Since there were no witnesses to JB's driver striking me in the chest after he had hit our truck, getting Battery charges to stick are all but impossible.Also, JB claims no responsibility for his actions even though he was at their customer's dock as a representative of their company.

In the very near future there will be cameras on all four sides of our truck with the ability to record incidents like this.Their driver would be in jail now or at the very least out on bond awaiting a hearing! ATEAM, you got the right idea from every angle! On site security cameras may help if they're at the right angle to catch the incident,but you have to be sure the data is captured and saved. Most systems I'm told run no more than a 72 hour loop and then dump that data and start over recording.Plus you have to get that recording from the owner of the system.Not always easy.

Oh, they've agreed to pay the estimated amount for the damages to our truck.As for down time, they're so generously offering to pay $200/day for the 3 days our truck is in the shop. Wait, don't DR units "net" far more than that for average daily revenue? I think so, at least ours does. They say thats all they're willing to pay,period. So DR-units, what's the bottom line you would accept?

davekc · Oct 4, 2006

I would not settle on 200 per day. What you need is a subrogation attorney that should be provided from your insurance carrier. In most cases they will take your earnings going 30 days back. They will back out of course your fuel ect. From that, they will arrive at a daily average. If they refuse to pay, then the process of taking it to court begins. If he is clearly at fault on the damages, they will pay prior to it going to court.
The issue with him hitting you physically is a tough sell unless there is witnesses. Your only recourse there would be small claims. Not a likely win since the police didn't charge him.
The above isn't legal advice, but will give you a place to start.
Good luck and I hope it works out.

Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator

RichM · Oct 4, 2006

If you have truck insurance through Fedex you should also be able to get an additional $150 a day for downtime coverage.

Paul56 · Oct 5, 2006

That is fairly standard fare for a large carrier to not accept responsibility for the action of their driver. Some of these carriers also suggest to their drivers that they falsify their logs so everyone can maximize their earnings. But when push comes to shove those same carriers will refused to acknowledge they have done so and will suggest the driver was acting on his own. More experienced drivers won't get caught in this trap, but some newer ones might.

Considering everything you have gone through, they are not offering enough so get a lawyer on the situation pronto.

As well, get yourself some self defense training. It will take some time to arrive at the point where you can confidently defend yourself agains actions like this, but if you don't get started that will never happen. If that situation had happened to either myself or my wife, we would have acted in self defense and the guy would have been dropped to the ground before he touched either one of us.

Consider also recording audio in the vicinity of the truck.

Moot · Oct 5, 2006

Get an attorney and get the J.B. Hunt driver's logs showing his last
30 days. Chances are he made a mistake somewhere and that will help explain his demeanor and actions at the time of the incident.

As for the assault charges, you may have to let that slide. But by all means go after the driver and the company for damages and down time.

Good luck and be persistent! Keep us posted as to the outcome.

Streakn1 · Oct 5, 2006

Hey Paul56,
Thanks for the advise on self defense. Im very fortunate in that my wife was a Sheriff's deputy for 11 years before we went into the expedite business.Obviously she had to be up on the laws to be able to properly enforce them.

Unfortunately in our society and the way our laws are written, self defense rides a fine line. Sadly, in many states you are all but required to let them attack (hit) you first before you can legally hit back and not end up in the back of a patrol car yourself. Sure, its not right, but with the laws written as they are you have to be careful. Then you have Florida,the deadly force state which gives you the right to use deadly force even if you feel threatened by someone. Talk about going from one extreme to another!

DannyD · Oct 5, 2006

>That is fairly standard fare for a large carrier to not
>accept responsibility for the action of their driver. Some
>of these carriers also suggest to their drivers that they
>falsify their logs so everyone can maximize their earnings.
>As well, get yourself some self defense training. It will
>take some time to arrive at the point where you can
>confidently defend yourself agains actions like this, but if
>you don't get started that will never happen. If that
>situation had happened to either myself or my wife, we would
>have acted in self defense and the guy would have been
>dropped to the ground before he touched either one of us.
>

I'd be careful about this. Yea ya can look like a wuss in front of your wife or what have ya. That kinda blows but it beats the alternative. I got in a fight w/ some guy w/ bi polar disorder back in 2001. I've had previous martial arts training. I "won" the fight but was also wondering for a few months if I was gonna go to jail or not for assault & battery.

It came out that he had taken a tire iron to an off duty officer & a few other things & I was found innocent due to self defense. I still got a 1 year probation slapped on me though. The judge liked me so I think that helped some. My lawyer said after the trial I was 1 of his 3 most innocent clients he'd ever represented. Whether that was schmoozing me or not I'm not sure. Still, that didn't take away from the few months of nerves wondering if I was going to jail or not. Plus the trial wasn't free either. If I recall it right it set me back about $700 or so.

I like the film idea for sure. Self defense might not be a bad idea. Don't get me wrong. I'm taking Jiu Jitsu as we speak. I just know I would NOT use it unless there was no other alternative. In my case the guy was across the room from me & we kinda met in the middle. Knowing what I know now (w/ no film) I would have let him come all the way to me.

Call me a wuss. I don't care. It beats the alternative. Be careful on striking someone.

Good luck to ya,
Danny

Paul56 · Oct 6, 2006

Well, I suppose I should explain myself further.

Both of us have black belts and we would never attack someone first, that is just plain wrong. There is no way I will be the initiator of violence.

I'm always aware of my surroundings and those around me. If someone attacks me, I'm definitely going to be ready to dodge or block that attack. My responses to that will always be purely reactive; however, even with that if they keep coming after me they may eventually land up on the ground.

I'd really rather walk away from a situation like this than get into it with anyone.

ATeam · Oct 6, 2006

Here's the link to info about our camera system.

http://www.expeditersonline.com/dcforum/DCForumID16/1409.html

It will support up to 8 cameras on the truck and two audio feeds.

greg334 · Oct 6, 2006

Hey Phil, I am wondering have you heard anything about the mics being illegal in some states as part of some of the eavesdropping laws?

I know that many of the cameras that used to come with built in mics are no longer being offered and the imported cameras seem to make note that they no longer have mics.

thanks for the link.

Broompilot · Oct 7, 2006

OK here, I am gona let something out that is very personal that happened to me a few years ago.

#1 the suggestion on self defense is out of line, why? Go ahead put a mark on a person who shoved you. He is already peeved and your gona be the one going to jail, he will lie, cheat, and cry to the cops.

Unless you are punched, cut, and have marks to prove it DO NOT ACT BACK. You did the correct thing by not continuing the altercation.

Now where you failed, if this guy shoved you as you claimed in the chest area or sholder blades, you would have had red marks for probably an hour. The police should have been called IMM. and now you had the proof, this is how domestic disputes are looked at, the police will look over a female (most likely) even ask her to open her shirt to see the sholder areas and if there is any indication of shoving some boy friend or husband is going to the POKY NOW.

I once defened myself from an irrate nieghbor I never meet. She had accused me of doing something I was clueless to, this escalated into her comming into my house, yelling and screaming and threatening me, got to the point I pushed her back out of my house.

Sure enough Poice investigated, (I called 1st )and refused to press charges against me but warned her any attempt on her part to EVER come near my property again whould resulte in HER BEING ARRESTED for Tresspaasing. This is not the end of this story. She had a history of loosing her temper.

She was so Pixxed off, she went to the Majistrate, and told LIES to have a Warrant put out for my arrest. Yes I was arrested, jailed, and tried. This cost me big to defend myself and also my repuatation was at stake. OK now if your reading this your saying I would sue her when I win, and I did win with the judge chewing the DA for ever bringing such false eveidence into his court. As for suing, I could have sued, and won, but as for collecting NO WAY, when you are married your assests are not touchable until one party dies. Now I could keep on renewing the case every 5-7 ytears but is that worth it. Heck she could out live me. You can only get $ from a party if you sue both of them and since her husband never was involved I cannot collect on his/her assests.

Best thing is its OVER, but in the future always call the Police IMM after an altercation and let them decide, if you were shoved there gona want to know where and also they will investigate so to see if there is ANY evidence. (Red Marks etc...)

Streakn1 · Oct 7, 2006

The Adam's County Sheriff's Dept was called to the scene immediately. They arrived within 10 minutes of the altercation. I was asked if I had any injuries from the battery. Unfortunately there were no visible markings where he had hit me at the time of the investigation.Since there were no witnesses to the battery a judgement call was made by the investigating officer not to make an arrest.

Had markings occurred where I was struck it is not necessarily enough for an arrest to be made. In my wife's 11 years as a Sheriff's Deputy she saw people do amazing things in an attempt to get others arrested.If your injuries are more severe ie: cuts,split lip, bloody nose,etc, those are injuries someone most likely would not do to themselves. In otherwords, without witnesses how would an officer know that you did not cause a mark yourself in an attempt to falsify a battery charge.In my case,since both parties would be leaving the area and most likely not cross pathes again, the fear of continuing violence did not exist.

I appreciate you sharing your story Broompilot and unfortunately suspected incidents like yours are handled differently as you learned.

Broompilot · Oct 8, 2006

Most people are to stupid to think about putting a red mark on ones body, and since a red mark from someone hauling off and shoving you, it would be nearly impossible for you to # think that fast and acutally do it. How you gona do it? Get a shovel, remember it was a hand that shoved you not a sharp object, you gona run into a door thats a straight line see my point.

That is how this lady thought when the police investigated she lied to them about me punching her, when they said lets see where, BINGO no marks no scratches no nothing. Like they said a very Healthy 170lbs man hits a woman as hard as she claimed, she would have been black and blue if I punched her. She also claimed she grabbed me by the neck and arm,when I assaulted her. Police said to her if you hit him you expect us to believe that you would be standing here, I am not a giant, but in very good physical shape I do work out, than again no marks on me at all. The officer asked me to take off my shirt, and told her you are lying, there are no signs of an attack on his body so if you grabbed him by the neck his neck would still be red. The officer showed no favoritism at all, just straight up investigating and pointing the facts out.

This all happened fast and people are not in that frame of mind, to think about causing self injury. Most people when first struck are in a mindset of disbelieve. I could not figure out this situation until after the police explained why she was irate. Your case you knew but I am sure you were not believing this situation escalted to the point it got to.

You still in my opinion acted properly, so you are without a law suite, thats a whole lot better than the two of you going to the ground, and one getting seriously injured and than facing legal matters. No matter what I want no part of a court room even if it is paying me$ to stressfull, aggrivating, and expensive.

simon says · Oct 8, 2006

I am truly amazed that JB Hunt didn't at least act concerned that an altercation had occurred and seek to get information. However, you have no way of knowing if they took action against him or not. He obviously had an accident report to file, and he may have a history of problems, so he might have been dealt with.
I had an incident on the road that is perhaps relevant... Some fool was driving way too fast on 95 S of DC (along with others) in snow, and I called him on it over the CB. He immediately pulled over and wanted to start a fight. Of course, I kept going and lost him. I did get his company name and unit number, and called them. They were very concerned after I told them what happened, and I know Jethro might have had an "office" visit following that. By the way, he was driving a gasoline tanker, so his company might have been far more interested in my report.
At any rate, I would definitely write a letter to JB Hunt, do it as formal as you can, perhaps even seek some legal advice, and send it on with all the particulars. As far as I'm concerned, bad or foul drivers should be taken off the road, I have no qualms about ending their driving career!x(

Streakn1 · Oct 8, 2006

His company has shown no concern over my "alledged claim that their driver committed assault and/or battery". I wasn't even asked if I was ok or if I had been hurt.Their claim is they have no responsibility for the driver's actions other than the property damage.Thats ok, I'm done with them. Our Attorney takes over the case on Monday,and as for the driver, he's not out of the woods yet!

Paul56 · Oct 14, 2006

>#1 the suggestion on self defense is out of line, why? Go
>ahead put a mark on a person who shoved you. He is already
>peeved and your gona be the one going to jail, he will lie,
>cheat, and cry to the cops.

That was me who made the suggestion.

A shove that ends with that is one thing, but an attack that starts with a shove and continues due to action by the attacker is quite another.

Faced with the later and an inability to avoid it, I will take the necessary (not excessive) action needed to defend myself.

>Unless you are punched, cut, and have marks to prove it DO
>NOT ACT BACK. You did the correct thing by not continuing
>the altercation.

Perhaps I wasn't clear earlier.

I never suggested the person being attacked continue an altercation.

One only responds in self-defense if there is no other way out.