Arizona Supreme Court Bars Candidate from running...

[Dreamer]

... because she doesn't speak English well enough.. you know we're gonna hear more about this.. ACLU, etc... 'discrimination'!!!

Dale





http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/politics/state_politics/English-Proficiency-Candidate-2-7-2012

PHOENIX (AP) — The Arizona Supreme Court on Tuesday affirmed a ruling that barred a woman from running for a city council seat because she doesn't speak English proficiently.
The state's highest court ruled that Alejandrina Cabrera's name shouldn't appear on the March 13 election ballot in San Luis but didn't list a reason for the decision. A full written ruling is expected at a later date, according to an Arizona Supreme Court spokeswoman.
The case brought widespread attention to the southern Arizona border city after Mayor Juan Carlos Escamilla filed a court action asking for a determination of whether Cabrera has the English skills necessary to serve a four-year term.
State law requires elected officials to know English, but Cabrera's attorneys claimed the law doesn't define proficiency in the language.

 

[LDB]

Of course we will because that's exactly the wrong position for them to take so it's exactly the one they will take.

 

[greg334]

Its not a case of discrimination but it is a case that there is a standard that does not really fit the needs of the voters of that district. If she appeals to a group and speaks enough english to get by, then languge is not an issue, be it the the groups language is spanish, polish or arabic.

This actaully is one of two issues, the other is the federal court overturning a voter led change in the california constitution, which means the voter has no rights to chart their own course. Maybe this issue is far more important, along the same lines as Kelo v. New London because it goes to our ability to control our government though the ballot.

 

[chefdennis]

The Cali ruling will be overturned at the SC..as for the Ariz deal, "when in Rome".....don't like it, don't go to Rome...

 

[Turtle]

The Arizona thing is pretty interesting. As a condition of Statehood, Arizona's constitution requires all public officials to do their duties in English and without the aid of a translator. So in that respect it's cut and dry. However, previous City Council members who likewise have barely a level of "survival English" have also served, and with the aid of a translator. The problem is, of course, this particular candidate, Alejandrina Cabrera, has tried to remove the Mayor from office twice. San Luis is "recall" crazy. Since 2001, there have been 24 recall attempts — seven of them successful. So getting her kicked off the ballot is clearly politically motivated.

What I find hilarious is what transpired when the judge ordered her to be evaluated by a linguist.
The linguist who evaluated her, William G. Eggington, a professor of English and linguistics at Brigham Young University in Utah, said that based on interviews and tests he conducted with Mrs. Cabrera, she had “basic survival level” English that fell well below that needed to participate in city business.

“I admire Ms. Cabrera for her courage and ambition, and wish her well,” Professor Eggington wrote. “However, in my studied opinion, based upon the results of the range of tests and analyses described above, she does not yet have sufficient English language proficiency to function adequately as an elected City Council member.”

Professor Eggington is from Australia, and has a very thick Australian accent. At one point during the interview he asked Cabrera about "summer", but in thick Australian it comes off sounding like "summa", which is the well-known and well-used nickname for the nearby community of "Somerton", of which Eggington is completely unaware. So he's asking about "summer" and she responds waxing poetic about "Somerton", to which he concludes she doesn't understand English (and maybe that she's even a little crazy LOL).

A little more context and depth on this whole story is in this two-page article from The New York Times.

 

[cheri1122]

Even if it is politically motivated [and this case appears to be], the matter needs to be addressed. In the original article, which I read awhile back, it said that Ms Cabrera was unable to state where she had gone to high school after being asked 3 times - and you can't blame that on the Australian accent, because the linguistic professor wasn't yet involved. [BTW: 'waxed poetic'? Bit of poetic license on your part, looks like. Quite a bit, actually - the article says Ms Cabrera was confused, and that's all it said about that incident.] I found it quite troubling that the woman had GRADUATED from the local high school, yet is unable to speak English with even a little bit of proficiency. Why did the school graduate a student who cannot speak English well enough to be understood without a translator?! THAT'S a question I'd like answered.
If Ms Cabrera didn't want to be a representative of the people, it probably wouldn't be such a big deal - but I, for one, would prefer that all elected [and appointed] representatives have enough English at their command to avoid the potential for misunderstanding. Particularly in written communication [legalese] but verbal, as well.
The fact that many residents state that English is seldom heard in their city is troublesome, to me - in America, I think business should be conducted in English. To allow Spanish [or any other language] to dominate creates a scenario where native born American citizens may be unable to understand the language, and that should not be acceptable in public discourse.
Immigrants, legal or otherwise, must conform to American laws and customs, not vice-versa.

 

[jaminjim]

I found it quite troubling that the woman had GRADUATED from the local high school, yet is unable to speak English with even a little bit of proficiency. Why did the school graduate a student who cannot speak English well enough to be understood without a translator?! THAT'S a question I'd like answered.

According to Turtles article,

"Arizona has run into trouble policing language in the past. Last year, the state stopped sending monitors into classrooms to check the English proficiency of bilingual teachers after the federal Department of Education opened an investigation."

 

[Turtle]

Well, duh, of course it was poetic license. It was employed to illustrate the ridiculousness of someone from Australia administering a linguistics test to anyone in America, especially one who is a native speaker of Spanish from a border town, where 99% of the citizens there speak primarily Spanish, and why I find it all so funny. But I should also note that the breadth and depth of my knowledge on this does not come solely from the two articles linked in this thread. There are others out there.

As for graduating people who cannot speak functional English, there may be two scenarios there. One, since the vast majority of the people in that town speak Spanish as their first language, and speak primarily Spanish around town, it's quite possible that lessons in school, most of them, may be being taught in Spanish. The other is, she learned English well enough in school, but since it's rarely used anywhere down there, she may be completely out of practice and forgotten most of it since graduating. Generally speaking, a foreign language is something you have to use or you'll lose.

It would be troublesome to me to find out that English is rarely used in a town in America, if that town wasn't on the border (or isolated, of which there are several examples). But on a border town, especially a small one, it shouldn't be surprising at all.

 

[clcooper]

i wonder . since they speak Spanish on the USA side . does that mean the ones on the Mexico side speak English

 

[Turtle]

i wonder . since they speak Spanish on the USA side . does that mean the ones on the Mexico side speak English

Unlikely. More likely they're just like you and me, and they speak the language they are most comfortable speaking.

 

[cheri1122]

The language issue is one of those slippery slopes we really don't want to start sliding down, IMO. As Turtle notes, in many border towns it's rare to hear English spoken, and the casual acceptance of that is troublesome to me. Because if that's acceptable, how about the many [MANY] enclaves & neighborhoods that speak primarily foreign [that dang 'i before e' rule is just flat out wrong, lol] languages, like German, Italian, Chinese, or Farsi? Do we allow those languages to dominate the public discourse, too?
I know from personal experience how difficult it is to deal with non English speaking people who are hospitalized, [try finding a translator who speaks Farsi at midnight!] but mostly, they were elderly, and that's understandable. But I don't understand why people who were educated [and maybe born] in the US believe the language we speak isn't necessary for them to know. That ANY would be representative of the public thinks so is just wrong, IMO.

 

[Turtle]

One Sioux chief turns to a Navajo chief and says, "How about the many enclaves & neighborhoods that speak primarily foreign languages, like English, French, Spanish, Portuguese. Do we allow those languages to dominate the public discourse, too?"

In a nation of immigrants, the notion that languages will evolve and dominate as the population evolves and dominates shouldn't be one of surprise. Early in this country's history and pre-history, the above four languages dominated large regions of what is now the Lower 48.


"But I don't understand why people who were educated [and maybe born] in the US believe the language we speak isn't necessary for them to know."

We speak the "language we speak" because everyone around us in our daily lives speaks English. If everyone around us spoke Spanish, as is the case with many border towns, particularly smaller and isolated ones with few "us"-type visitors, well, there ya go. In their daily lives they have no need to use English, therefore they don't. Why would they? Several Amish communities speak almost entirely German, with a handful of people having a "survival" grasp of English. There are at least two small Vermont communities where French is all they speak. There's a town in the UP of Michigan where the residents speak a unique language all their own which is an amalgamation of 5 different languages. Few residents speak English there beyond "survival English". The same holds true for a couple of isolated Appalachian communities and some Native American communities out west. It's not nearly as cut an dry as people want to make it.

 

[cheri1122]

It's too late for the Souix & Navajo, and sadly, their language - they lost that battle centuries ago.
No argument here regarding the evolving nature of language, or of the scattered enclaves where English is rarely heard, either, but that's not the case here, is it?
We're talking about a large population of people living in a country whose language they don't speak, and it causes a great deal of time and money to accommodate their refusal to learn basic conversational English. What they speak in their own homes is not our concern, but taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for interpreters to allow them to transact their business with the government, when required. Not to mention representing the government!
Nor should any citizen who speaks English require a translator in the continental US - and having to 'press one for English' is just insulting, IMO.
If you choose to live somewhere, you adapt to the local culture, not vice-versa, as immigrants always have [well, except those pesky English, Portuguese, French, etc, settlers] because it's disrespectful [if not contemptuous] to do otherwise.