Are you being macromanaged?

blizzard2014

Veteran Expediter
Driver
I have a friend who works for an (unnamed carrier) who was recently forced to drive in an unsafe manner. He had to unplug his quallcom immediately after he was dispatched on a higher mileage load because he knew that if he got held up at the shipper he'd be swapped. He unplugged his qualcomm and drove 15 miles to the pick up location,and then spent 2 hours dilly dallying around trying to get loaded. He finally got loaded a few minutes before his actual protect time. He promptly plugged the QC back in and hit arrived at shipper. Not more than five minutes later he sent in his depart shipper macro. This gave him the entire 16 hours of the 16 hour rule for vans that his (unnamed carrier) gives unregulated drivers to complete their miles, before either being swapped, or forced to take a 4 hour break.

About 15 minutes into his trip he receives a QC message that says "he will have to drive the entire 16 hours in order to get far enough into the load that he will have time to take a 4 hour safety break." Now he is forced to drive a little bit faster in a mad attempt to build up enough extra time to take his 4 hour brake, and be able to keep the load. He called me on the phone and told me he was not feeling up to driving an entire 16 hours straight, but would have to push through in order to make some money. He was very stressed out not knowing if he was going to get to keep the load or not. He ended up getting to keep the load, but he had to work within company regulations to do it.

My question to everyone is...Do you think it is safe or in the drivers best interest to be regulated by a carrier? What if my friend could have taken his break earlier when he really needed it and then built up time in the load on the back end? Is it really safe to force drivers to take brakes when they are not tired and then force them to run when they are? I was once forced to take a 4 hour break on my way to Dallas by an (unnamed carrier) and I told them I feld good, and was wide awake. I only had 200 miles left to go and they forced me to stop and take a break. All I did was stare out my windshield for four hours twiddling my thumbs and looking at the clock. When I finally got back on the road, I began to feel sleepy and tired, but I then had to fight sleepyness and traffic. All of this could have been avoided if I would have been allowed to drive when I felt good!

I have driven 1600 miles straight before in a safe manner. Other times I have struggled to drive 620 miles over night. It all depends on what the driver can handle and how much energy they have when a load offer comes across the QC. The company that i'm with now does not macro/micromanage me. I had a run out to ST. Paul on Wednesday night and I had to stop and get an hours worth of rest 26 miles from Delivery. I stopped for a nap at the TA in Hudson Wisconsin. No one bombarded me with a sleu of macros and QC messages asking why my truck had been stopped for over an hour, or threatening to send out the state police to check on me.

I am a professional driver and I know how to manage my time. I know how to balance safety with on time performance. That is because I am allowed to work breaks into my loads when "my body" actually needs them...not when some computer or dispatcher behind a desk tells me I need them.
 
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layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
That carrier should be named in here if that story can be confirmed. (not doubting it, it is just always a good idea to double check) He should not only leave that carrier but he should also report that incident to the proper officials. That is beyond micromanagement and into criminal activity. It is because of things like this that we should all carry pocket voice recorders in our trucks.
 

blizzard2014

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Well I suppose he could have had the load swapped if he was not feeling up to driving 16 hours. So, it was his decision to run it that way in order to make money. I'm not saying the company is responsible for what the driver does within the system that they have. What I am saying is that safety systems are not always the safest systems.

Imagine I'm with my friends carrier and I have been up since 6 o'clock in the morning waiting for a load. The day has been pretty mild weathered so I have had no need to start up my truck and dispatch has no way of telling how long i've been awake. Lets say I get a load offer at 7 o'clock at night and it has to go 700 miles in 20 hours. What if I take that load and then decide to run 10 hours and take a 2 hour break? Well, I would get a message that I have not taken a full four hour break and would be swapped because I had burned up most of my 16 hour clock. Do I just run the load straight through, or do I tell them to swap me out at 600 miles?
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I might have not asked a very important question, van or straight truck?

No matter what kind of truck, under DOT logging laws or not, being asked to unplug the Clink should be raising all kinds of red flags.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I kinda figured as I re-read the thing. I know nothing about that end of the business so I will just go away quietly. :eek:
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Do you think it is safe or in the drivers best interest to be regulated by a carrier?

YES!

Because the company is not just there to service the customer but also to make sure the people who are contracted with them operate in a SAFE and REASONABLE manner.

If this guy got into an accident, then the company along with the guy would be liable because of the time he spent behind the wheel. Any lawyer who passed the bar can take him and the company to the cleaners with just the fact that he cheated the company's regulations.

In some cases, the insurance company will refuse to pay for the damages to the truck, the driver and some times even the freight because of the negligence involved.

Regardless what the reasoning is behind this guy's actions, the rules are not there because an individual can drive 2000 miles at one time or what ever but rather because we are INDIVIDUALS, and because we are all DIFFERENT and our bodies react differently to different situations, the rules are setup to ensure safe operation of the vehicle for the safety of the public and in many cases the driver for all.
 

piper1

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
So..HE unplugs his QC so he can get this great run, and then complains he has to run this great run as a sleepy driver. His carrier and he are 2 hours apart in knowing what the real timeline is as far as his on duty status. He complains also that he must drive faster than he wants (sleepy) to conform to the rules or he risks getting the load yanked to another truck part way.

Sounds to me like a case of poor time management and this is exactly why carriers self regulate their vans.
 

geo

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Retired Expediter
US Navy
i would not work for carrier like that
even in a van i still go by 11 hours driving and 10 hours off
and will not drive tried
also would call dot and say this is what they are doing
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Well, I'll start off saying nobody drives 1600 miles straight through safely. Nobody. Ever. I know several of you will disagree and argue and that's expected and fine but doesn't alter the fact that nobody stays 100% for 1600 miles, other than in their own mind. That's 24 hours straight and it's impossible regardless of any/all arguments forthcoming to the contrary.

Given the information in the original post, the carrier's representative and thereby the carrier was reckless at best and negligent at worst. They should have some sort of "incentive" to not do that again in the future.
 

fastrod

Expert Expediter
I am a professional driver and I know how to manage my time. I know how to balance safety with on time performance. That is because I am allowed to work breaks into my loads when "my body" actually needs them...not when some computer or dispatcher behind a desk tells me I need them.

What you say here is true but the problem is that most larger carriers will hire any fool that can walk and chew gum at the same time. Then they have to over regulate them just to insure that their customers freight gets to where it is going safely. Another thing is that once a carrier starts forcing 4 hour breaks or swaps as they see fit then they dont have contractors, they now have employees.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Well I suppose he could have had the load swapped if he was not feeling up to driving 16 hours. So, it was his decision to run it that way in order to make money. I'm not saying the company is responsible for what the driver does within the system that they have. What I am saying is that safety systems are not always the safest systems.

Imagine I'm with my friends carrier and I have been up since 6 o'clock in the morning waiting for a load. The day has been pretty mild weathered so I have had no need to start up my truck and dispatch has no way of telling how long i've been awake. Lets say I get a load offer at 7 o'clock at night and it has to go 700 miles in 20 hours. What if I take that load and then decide to run 10 hours and take a 2 hour break? Well, I would get a message that I have not taken a full four hour break and would be swapped because I had burned up most of my 16 hour clock. Do I just run the load straight through, or do I tell them to swap me out at 600 miles?

700 miles is just under 14 hrs run time and you have 20 hours to deliver..that leaves a 6 hour break, not including the time made up during the run....there is no problem with that load...
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
What you say here is true but the problem is that most larger carriers will hire any fool that can walk and chew gum at the same time. Then they have to over regulate them just to insure that their customers freight gets to where it is going safely. Another thing is that once a carrier starts forcing 4 hour breaks or swaps as they see fit then they dont have contractors, they now have employees.

Not really true....every contractor agrees when signed on to ompany policy and agrees that these are the rules of operation..you literally sign what little rights you have away...
 

blizzard2014

Veteran Expediter
Driver
700 miles is just under 14 hrs run time and you have 20 hours to deliver..that leaves a 6 hour break, not including the time made up during the run....there is no problem with that load...

Yes it does, but if you stop for a 2 hour break before your scheduled 4 hour break, you lose time on the computer that calculates your ETA and you will then be swapped. So you are forced to drive straight through till the break in order to keep ahead of your ETA. If you get close to or behind your computer calculated ETA, you will be swapped.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Another thing is that once a carrier starts forcing 4 hour breaks or swaps as they see fit then they dont have contractors, they now have employees.

I wish someone would show me where this is true, after fighting for/with/against contractors in another business, they are doing a job for the company and in no way would become employees when they are told to take a break or swap out the work. Only when the company starts telling you how to drive with out reasoning, they step into a gray area. Breaks are not unreasonable and neither is swapping out work that is beyond the standards that already exist.
 

blizzard2014

Veteran Expediter
Driver
You cannot legally require an independent contractor to swap out a load when there are no set federal regulations on cargo vans! Also, how can you call it exclusive use if you are moving the load from one truck to another two or even three times over the length of a load?

I know when you bid on NLM freight, you have to put the unit number into the system and that unit is supposed to move the load the entire distance from pick to drop! How can you then place that exclusive use load onto another truck that has a different number?

I think that if a company has rules placed on their "independent contractors" they are not true independent contractors. I have never seen a drywall contractor being told he has to take a 4 hour break in between a 20 hour job? No, independent contractors are given a job to do and they decide how to best perform the job once they've agreed to do it.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Exclusive use doesn't necessarily mean the freight stays in the same truck the entire time, it means the customer's freight doesn't ever get mixed with any other customer's freight during the course of the journey, unless I've been misinformed.
 

x06col

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Retired Expediter
US Army
Yes it does, but if you stop for a 2 hour break before your scheduled 4 hour break, you lose time on the computer that calculates your ETA and you will then be swapped. So you are forced to drive straight through till the break in order to keep ahead of your ETA. If you get close to or behind your computer calculated ETA, you will be swapped.

See now....we want six hours steada four hours. Don't ever end!!! We whine about not making any money. We whine cause we're running too hard. IF, someone can't stand up to the plate and hit the ball that is offered.....then jes say no. Also, the Post Office is an option.......and.......they are thinking bout a five day week...
 

gsmacker

Seasoned Expediter
I wonder about the whole swapping and scheduled breaks. I mean they aren't really sayin you have to stop they are just sayin that "their freight" isnt continuing in that contracted van. As for breaks I have never had a dispatcher or safety rep call and tell me to stop after I have been driving for x amount hours when I am not under load. Now when I am under load they call and say you must stop at certain hours, they dont tell me that I better take a nap or what they just say that "contracted van" has to not show movent at x time and not show movement for x amount hours. Also that van has to be operating in their hourly guidlines to be considered for loads. Just this week I ran a load past a carriers scheduled break time cause I wasnt tired and I knew exactly what would happen, the van I was in was put on safety hold after the fact. And basically if I wanted to be considered for a load again then I had to make sure that van sat still for x amount of hours. As for your friend blizzard, I imagine nobody was holding a gun to his head telling him to unplug his qc or accept that load. To complain about being too tired to run a load safely. Either you're up for a load or you're not. Your friend "fanagled" his way through that load to keep all the miles plain and simple. Its stunts like that, that keep carriers on their toes on keeping track of what hours their "contracted" van are doing. You cannot drive for safely for 1600 miles straight. Not sayin it cant be done just sayin that you might think you are safe but every hour after a certain threshhold you become more and more dangerous. You just dont know it cause you're on auto pilot.
 

blizzard2014

Veteran Expediter
Driver
I never said he was sleepy. I said that he had to push himself to do the load when there was no need for it. The load had enough time to take a break. But his company made him take a break when they felt he should take a brake "not when he actually needed it!"

I also had another friend from the same carrier who was forced to stop and take a break when he was wide awake and had to drive tired to his delivery because he was sitting around for five hours waiting for the clock to turn. Why do these companies need to micromanage professional contracted drivers? This makes no sense!
 
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