Anyone out there letting O/O's bid their own loads?

[RoadSaint]

I'm currently in a non-exclusive contract with a company as a CV O/O, but sometimes feel like dispatch isn't really trying that hard to find me a load. Are there any smaller carriers out their that would let an O/O drive for them and bid loads for themselves under their authority?

I ran a transportation company for a couple years, and I understand the admin side of what's involved in such a proposition, and am confident that I'd be able to do it while on the road. Along with that, I also understand that a dispatcher's time will rarely be spent specifically looking for a load for me. With drivers all over the country, it's very possible for them to miss loads for me that I'd never personally miss, as getting cargo in my van would be my 1 and only priority.

Thoughts? Anyone know of companies that allow this right now, or anyone out their with their own authority who'd be willing to?

 

[mikedrives191]

It's against the rules of most partner carriers and load boards for companies to allow their drivers to bid on loads. Personally I would never let one of my drivers bid on their own loads. Too many things can go wrong! It's not as easy as you think. I have friends who are in dispatch and it isn't just about bidding on a load. Plus there is a lot of proprietary information that drivers just don't need to know. I don't think you're going to find that type of arrangement anywhere. Good luck with your plight though!

 

[Turtle]

I'm currently in a non-exclusive contract with a company as a CV O/O, but sometimes feel like dispatch isn't really trying that hard to find me a load.

Why do you think that? Is it because you don't get a load every day? The incentive for every carrier is to get every one of their trucks loaded every day. To think yours forgot about you, or would prefer to let you sit, doesn't make financial sense for the carrier.

The fact is, cargo vans will sit a lot more than straight or big trucks, the main reason being there are a bazillion more cargo vans out here than there are loads. And that's why the single most often heard complaint from cargo van drivers is "my carrier can't keep me loaded." Every time there's a thread on here about things being slow, it's cargo van drivers doing the whining. Straight trucks and tractors are mostly loaded and happy.

Bidding on your own loads, or hooking up with other small carriers and then running the multi-carrier model, doesn't increase the number of van loads, so you end up sitting the same amount of time, anyway. Plus, you have you and 2 or 3 other carriers bidding on the same loads for you, and you end up running loads for less than you would have otherwise.

 

[FlyingVan]

I know that sometimes it feels like dispatchers are not trying hard enough. The problem is that dispatchers can't manufacture loads.

Economy is what it is right now, companies are trying to save money and they expedite as few loads as posible. Couple that with everybody and their brother getting into van expediting since you don't need a CDL, and vans are relatively cheap, and we are where we are now, sitting more than driving.

I have sat next to my dispatcher/owner of my company and he works hard to get us loads, sometimes even cutting his share down to 0% and he still can't get the load. It is not always the fault of the dispatcher.

Sollution? Get a CDL and a straight truck. That sector is not as crowded.

 

[FlyingVan]

Haha, turtle is typing faster than me, I hate typing on the phone.

 

[RoadSaint]

@mikedrives191 Like I said, I ran a transportation company, and I understand the admin side of what is required to do the dispatch job. As for proprietary information the drivers don't need to know...honestly the only things you'd need to consider not allowing the driver to see that I could think of would be the prices of loads, and we're all adults here. No carrier is operating without making money, and I wouldn't expect a carrier that let me run under their authority, even if I was bidding my own loads, to do it for free.

With a large company, you're right. I'd never expect Panther or some other large carrier to let me bid my own jobs. But for a smaller carrier or independent who doesn't have extensive office staff who handle dispatching, a driver who finds their own loads, is courteous with customers, and makes pickup and delivery deadlines could be a Godsend. Who -wouldn't- want to work with someone who cost them NOTHING in overhead(no support staff), but consistently made them money?

@Turtle: I understand what you're saying about having multiple companies bidding against each other ultimately all planning on giving you the same load, BUT, based on what people have said, it's a blind bidding process anyhow, so it doesn't actually make the price lower. If company A and company B both submit their 1 and only bid for a job for you, it doesn't drive the price down because they never even know someone else bid on it. It's not an auction style bidding process from what I've been told.

And besides, even if that's wrong, if all of the companies you're doing the multi-carrier thing through are paying you a flat rate rather than percentage, it won't matter to you anyhow. Lots of those companies pay a flat 70-85 cents a mile plus fsc.

Also, you're right, I'm a CV O/O, but the reason I think dispatch is slacking is because I won't hear anything out of them for 2 days, then I call them and say, "Oh hello, just calling in to make sure I'm still listed as in service. Been out here in X for X days." Then, suddenly I get a call 30 minutes later with a load offer. This happens constantly. But I feel like I'm being naggy if I call in and say something like that. I don't want to have to call and remind dispatch I'm out here. I just want to KNOW they're busting their azzes to get me loaded, or I want to do it myself. As I write this, I've been sitting in Texas for a week.

 

[RoadSaint]

I guess ultimately my question would be, if you have a driver who understands you have to make money too, what possible downside is there to letting an intelligent, college-educated driver with a management and customer service background bid their own jobs?

 

[Turtle]

@mikedrives191 Like I said, I ran a transportation company, and I understand the admin side of what is required to do the dispatch job.

Was this transportation company an expedite company?

With a large company, you're right. I'd never expect Panther or some other large carrier to let me bid my own jobs.

Actually, Panther lets you bid on your own loads. They will take 15% for insurance and authority.

But for a smaller carrier or independent who doesn't have extensive office staff who handle dispatching, a driver who finds their own loads, is courteous with customers, and makes pickup and delivery deadlines could be a Godsend. Who -wouldn't- want to work with someone who cost them NOTHING in overhead(no support staff), but consistently made them money?

For every Godsend, there are 25 nightmares. Seriously.

I understand what you're saying about having multiple companies bidding against each other ultimately all planning on giving you the same load, BUT, based on what people have said, it's a blind bidding process anyhow, so it doesn't actually make the price lower. If company A and company B both submit their 1 and only bid for a job for you, it doesn't drive the price down because they never even know someone else bid on it. It's not an auction style bidding process from what I've been told.

Some are blind, some are more auction style. With some you place your bid and you immediately see the other bids. I've watched with a driver while all 3 of his carriers were bidding on a single load, and he got the load, and it was the lowest bid. But even the ones that are blind, they ain't all that blind. You submit your bid, then you get a call that says someone underbid you by 20 cents, do you want to go lower. Some that are truly blind, the load goes to the carrier with the best rating, even if it's not the lowest bid, and small mom and pop carriers have a near-impossible task of attaining a high rating with those 3PLs.

And besides, even if that's wrong, if all of the companies you're doing the multi-carrier thing through are paying you a flat rate rather than percentage, it won't matter to you anyhow. Lots of those companies pay a flat 70-85 cents a mile plus fsc.

If all the carriers you are doing the multi-carrier thing through are paying you a flat rate, then you deserve exactly what you get. And you're getting screwed.

Also, you're right, I'm a CV O/O, but the reason I think dispatch is slacking is because I won't hear anything out of them for 2 days, then I call them and say, "Oh hello, just calling in to make sure I'm still listed as in service. Been out here in X for X days." Then, suddenly I get a call 30 minutes later with a load offer. This happens constantly. But I feel like I'm being naggy if I call in and say something like that. I don't want to have to call and remind dispatch I'm out here. I just want to KNOW they're busting their azzes to get me loaded, or I want to do it myself.

That's a classic illusory corollary. You ONLY forget your pencil on the day you have a test. You simply don't recall with such clarity the days you forgot your pencil and didn't need it. A baseball player makes a great play in the field to end the inning, and he's ALWAYS up first at bat the next inning. You simply don't recall with such clarity how often great plays are made to end the inning and someone else entirely is up next at bat. You call dispatch and suddenly (well, as suddenly as 30 minutes later can be) you get a load offer. You simply don't recall with such clarity every time you've gotten a load offer without having to make a call.

If you only get loads after calling, then after about the third time dispatch will be going, "We need to find this guy a load or else he's gonna call again," and will beat you to the punch.

As I write this, I've been sitting in Texas for a week.

A week in Texas without a load is rather common, actually. It's so common that a significant percentage of van expediters simply deliver in Texas (Dallas, Laredo, whatever) and immediately head to Memphis, Nashville, or St Louis. The exception being El Passo, where they tend to stay put and wait for a load. Many just flat out refuse loads to Texas anymore.

 

[Turtle]

I guess ultimately my question would be, if you have a driver who understands you have to make money too, what possible downside is there to letting an intelligent, college-educated driver with a management and customer service background bid their own jobs?

Whomever's authority you are running under will have to deal with the insurance issues, and the liability in the event of an accident, a service failure, or if you up and disappear with the load never to be heard from again. Most carriers don;t want to deal with it, regardless of how educated the average moron van driver might be (because that's what the majority of van drivers are).

 

[jjtdrv4u]

I'm currently in a non-exclusive contract with a company as a CV O/O, but sometimes feel like dispatch isn't really trying that hard to find me a load. Are there any smaller carriers out their that would let an O/O drive for them and bid loads for themselves under their authority?

I ran a transportation company for a couple years, and I understand the admin side of what's involved in such a proposition, and am confident that I'd be able to do it while on the road. Along with that, I also understand that a dispatcher's time will rarely be spent specifically looking for a load for me. With drivers all over the country, it's very possible for them to miss loads for me that I'd never personally miss, as getting cargo in my van would be my 1 and only priority.

Thoughts? Anyone know of companies that allow this right now, or anyone out their with their own authority who'd be willing to?

you might google "Fast Exact"; not sure how they work it now, but they used to have something like you are talking about a few years back, but not sure if they still do.

 

[RoadSaint]

If all the carriers you are doing the multi-carrier thing through are paying you a flat rate, then you deserve exactly what you get. And you're getting screwed.

Well, that is the case right now, and I admittedly don't have tons of experience as an expediter, so I must be getting screwed? Mind filling me in on how/why that is? 75-85 cents a mile plus fuel too low for a CV or something? Seems like pretty average to me.

Whomever's authority you are running under will have to deal with the insurance issues, and the liability in the event of an accident, a service failure, or if you up and disappear with the load never to be heard from again. Most carriers don;t want to deal with it, regardless of how educated the average moron van driver might be (because that's what the majority of van drivers are).

Doesn't a company have to deal with all of that when they bid your loads too? What part of that is unique, or a problem derived directly from allowing a driver to bid their own loads?

@jjtdrv4u Thanks, but I'm looking more for someone in the EO community that has a track record of integrity. I've done the grab-bag signing up with carriers. Even when you do your research, it's still a crap shoot because there's so much conflicting information out there, and anyone who's been in this industry for 10+ years is bound to have someone else who doesn't like them. So, you always have to ask yourself if that bad info you heard about X company actually makes them bad, or if a person doesn't like the owner/manager/whatever and is just badmouthing them.

No, I'd prefer to work with someone I can actually chat with first, and develop a relationship with in a public forum like this one.

 

[Turtle]

Well, that is the case right now, and I admittedly don't have tons of experience as an expediter, so I must be getting screwed? Mind filling me in on how/why that is? 75-85 cents a mile plus fuel too low for a CV or something? Seems like pretty average to me.

There's a reason a carrier will pay a flat rate - it's because they make more money in the long term than they will at a percentage. Flat rate pricing is always arrived at because it's a rate that is at the lower end of the load rates (in other words, most loads would pay the truck slightly more than flat rate when on a percentage). Most bidding is done all-in rather than line haul plus FSC, as FSC is a contractual addon. So when you are offered a load with line haul and FSC separated out, rest assured they did not bid it that way, and they have taken a percentage of your FSC.

If all of your loads are 85 cents plus fuel, as a 12 cent FSC, then that at 97 cents isn't bad at all for a cargo van, it's right there on the high end for what vans are getting. But few carriers pay 85 cents plus fuel. Most pay less than 80, closer to 72-75, which is why the going rate for cargo vans right now is about 85-90 cents per mile, on the average. I get paid a percentage, and it's rarely under $1 a mile all miles (including fuel). Every now and then I'll get one that pays like 88 cents a mile all miles, but that's due to a longer than normal deadhead, or rarely it's just a cheap rate. Those are overwhelmingly offset by the loads I get that are in the $135 to $1.50 a mile all miles. Overall I get between $1 and $1.10 a mile on the average.

If you are happy with 75 cents plus fuel, that's great. But know you are getting screwed in exchange for having a consistent rate.

Doesn't a company have to deal with all of that when they bid your loads too? What part of that is unique, or a problem derived directly from allowing a driver to bid their own loads?

Not really. They've already dealt with it. They know who they are dealing with, the insurance has been verified and vetted, they know when they're gonna get paid, there are few surprises.

 

[jjtdrv4u]

There's a reason a carrier will pay a flat rate - it's because they make more money in the long term than they will at a percentage. Flat rate pricing is always arrived at because it's a rate that is at the lower end of the load rates (in other words, most loads would pay the truck slightly more than flat rate when on a percentage). Most bidding is done all-in rather than line haul plus FSC, as FSC is a contractual addon. So when you are offered a load with line haul and FSC separated out, rest assured they did not bid it that way, and they have taken a percentage of your FSC.

If all of your loads are 85 cents plus fuel, as a 12 cent FSC, then that at 97 cents isn't bad at all for a cargo van, it's right there on the high end for what vans are getting. But few carriers pay 85 cents plus fuel. Most pay less than 80, closer to 72-75, which is why the going rate for cargo vans right now is about 85-90 cents per mile, on the average. I get paid a percentage, and it's rarely under $1 a mile all miles (including fuel). Every now and then I'll get one that pays like 88 cents a mile all miles, but that's due to a longer than normal deadhead, or rarely it's just a cheap rate. Those are overwhelmingly offset by the loads I get that are in the $135 to $1.50 a mile all miles. Overall I get between $1 and $1.10 a mile on the average.

If you are happy with 75 cents plus fuel, that's great. But know you are getting screwed in exchange for having a consistent rate.

Flat rates are the norm for most multi-carriers that I have seen, and the rates mentioned here are the norm as well.

Per centage plus fsc is the norm for most of the big guys like who you are with. Most of the multi-carriers could not win bids at the rates you are talking about that you are getting paid, they do not get paid that much themselves, (this is from a few years ago when I used to work with some of them, and rates have not changed since then).

the big guys like Load 1, Fedex, Landstar, Panther, etc. pay better and have more perks than the Teamsters, lol.

 

[Treadmill]

Flat rates are the norm for most multi-carriers that I have seen, and the rates mentioned here are the norm as well.

Per centage plus fsc is the norm for most of the big guys like who you are with. Most of the multi-carriers could not win bids at the rates you are talking about that you are getting paid, they do not get paid that much themselves, (this is from a few years ago when I used to work with some of them, and rates have not changed since then).

the big guys like Load 1, Fedex, Landstar, Panther, etc. pay better and have more perks than the Teamsters, lol.

The only carriers I know that pay % are LEA and Load 1.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

The only carriers I know that pay % are LEA and Load 1.

Bolt and Crossroads Express

 

[Treadmill]

Bolt and Crossroads Express

Murray didn't say anything to me about %when I talked with him over a yr ago. Unless he changed the pay structure since then.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Murray didn't say anything to me about %when I talked with him over a yr ago. Unless he changed the pay structure since then.

always been at 80% since I first met him and interviewed him last summer....

 

[RoadSaint]

So when you are offered a load with line haul and FSC separated out, rest assured they did not bid it that way, and they have taken a percentage of your FSC.

Oh, ok, I see what you're saying. And yeah, I've suspected this myself with the carriers that have a "variable" fsc. I recall at least a couple companies out there that had a flat FSC they paid too. Personally, though, I'm with you on this. I have no idea why they separate it out at all. I'd rather just have an all in amount. I imagine they separate it out so that when fuel prices drop, they can lower your pay and say, "Oh no, we're just lowering costs to match dropping fuel prices" even though I've never seen a fsc that actually covered the fuel for a trip.

 

[Treadmill]

Oh, ok, I see what you're saying. And yeah, I've suspected this myself with the carriers that have a "variable" fsc. I recall at least a couple companies out there that had a flat FSC they paid too. Personally, though, I'm with you on this. I have no idea why they separate it out at all. I'd rather just have an all in amount. I imagine they separate it out so that when fuel prices drop, they can lower your pay and say, "Oh no, we're just lowering costs to match dropping fuel prices" even though I've never seen a fsc that actually covered the fuel for a trip.

I have had fsc cover my fuel for the whole trip and then some.

 

[Greg]

...even though I've never seen a fsc that actually covered the fuel for a trip.

Depends on you equipment and how you run it. I can usually cover all my fuel from it, sometimes even have some leftover. Run efficiently, put more money in your pocket, instead of the tank.

By the way, FSC is not supposed to cover ALL of your fuel costs. It is supposed to bring the cost of fuel down to a certain price. $1.25 per gallon for diesel, not sure about gasoline.