Another HOS question

[greg334]

OK I have been asked a question by a truck driver this morning that I could not answer.

As expediters how do we handle the HOS issue?

I am not in a larger truck yet, planning on it soon so this is something may need to know and I think a lot of others also wonder.

Here is what he is driving at, because he goes from dock to dock, he can plan out his trip and pretty much stay within the HOS rules. We on the other hand handle freight that has to be at y place at x time and after that we head (or try to) to another location where we can get another load.

He is puzzled and so am I for that matter – what do you do if your drive time is at 10 hours and you are sitting at the dock with no place for miles to go without violating the HOS rules? This assumes that you are at a location where you can not park anywhere, like Manhattan.

 

[highway star]

It's always been my understanding that the rules are the rules, period.

 

[RichM]

I decided to force that issue one time at the Miami FL Convention Center. Due to driving and waiting time I was up against the 14 hour limit. I explained this to the Freeman Gangsters that work the unloading and loading at most convention centers. i was told to get that **** truck out of our lot now. I pulled into the street and the police told me to get moving. I told them that the law says I cannot drive for 10 hours. They said leave or we will have you towed.

So I left,then called the Florida DOT and explained the situation. I was told that the police should have escorted me to a safe place to
park. Since there wasn't a chance in the world for that happening try to get them to document on something that they ordered you to leave, your log book would be the place to comment that Officer badge number 99 said I must leave the immeadiate area. If you can get the officer to inital that he ordered you to leave better for you but once again thats quite unlikely to happen.

No satisfactory answer to HOS rules exists. If they bring back the split sleeper berth then you can time manage your hours but with the present inflexible rules you can get into a bind..

 

[Tennesseahawk]

That's something to take into consideration before accepting a load. Detroit and DC are two more places... nowhere to sit for at least a half hour out of the city. Of course, you could always ask the consignee if you can sit the truck on their lot till you're legal again. We've done that a couple of times just to rejuice.

 

[davekc]

This has been our first dealing with the new HOS. They are a pain to say the least in expediting. The 14 hour rule has been the biggest challenge.
As mentioned, trips need to be planned carefully to avoid getting in a location bind.
I hope the HOS challenge is successful to help the single drivers out.



Davekc
owner
21 years
PantherII
EO moderator

 

[elton10]

It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything. Who said this? and it wasn't Bush.



I think it was Goebbels?

 

[younglobo]

The problem is that shippers and receivers don't care about HOS it only effects the drivers like above when you tell the reciever that you cant move the truck cause they made you wait to long, dont know how you fix that problem maybe we should have a set waiting limit that would help the driver, the basic problem with HOS is you have folks that have never drove a truck making rules about drivin a truck they do not understand the stituation people in our professions face.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

That would be something to ask a FXCC, a Panther, or a Landstar... companies that keep your log according to the qualcomm god. If they insist on A to B, AND perfect log books, then they must take into concideration that things like this happen. That's probably why they limit you to about a 9 hour run. But something will still happen, like a traffic jam or accident, where you'll be out of hours by the time you arrive. If they insist the letter of the law on log books, then they wouldn't mind a call when you've reached your 11 or 14 and announce you can't deliver due to said rules.

 

[guest]

There is no satisfactory answer to this question. There is a certain level of assumed dishonesty built into the HOS rules, which is a real bummer because a rule's legitimacy is severely undermined if there is no way to possibly comply with it in certain real world situations.

I wonder how a black box would deal with this situation. Perhaps it would just shut the truck down for 10 hours wherever the truck happens to be when the driver's time runs out. Now THAT would contribute a lot to highway safety, huh?

Sometimes a one size fits all solution doesn't really fit anyone.

I'm sure a lot of you remember that ridiculous story about the FedEx truck being towed into the consignee's yard and the driver having the truck unhitched and backing it into the dock. Apparently the truck had run out of hours. I never knew if that was a real story or someone with a subtle sense of humor. Maybe that's your solution--if you run out of hours call a tow truck.

 

[greg334]

>It is enough that the people know there was an election. The
>people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who
>count the votes decide everything. Who said this? and it
>wasn't Bush.
>
>
>
>I think it was Goebbels?

Close - same time period but think a few hundred miles away to the east.

I am intrested in how Newbies are handling HOS right now, especialy the Senior Field Editor of EO - hint.

 

[diver5240]

I was told a long time ago, that if I wanted to be totally honest on my logs that I should either, drive class A trucks or find an office job and park my expedite truck. Well I did neither so we all know what happens on the occation that we are forced to sit to long, if you do not know use your imagination. For the record I am as honest on my logs as I can be and still take care of my family. I hope the day will come when the goverment pulls thier head out of thier a** and finds a down to earth honest truck driver to write the rules (I would do it) but until then complete honesty is out of the question.

 

[Benzoid]

I'm really new to this forum.. So maybe I've not seen this before..

Anyway, is it required for Van drivers to keep a log? What about trucks that don't require a CDL??

Just wondering.

-Mike

 

[ATeam]

>I'm sure a lot of you remember that ridiculous story about
>the FedEx truck being towed into the consignee's yard and
>the driver having the truck unhitched and backing it into
>the dock. Apparently the truck had run out of hours. I
>never knew if that was a real story or someone with a subtle
>sense of humor. Maybe that's your solution--if you run out
>of hours call a tow truck.

I don't know of that specific story, but I do know that "tow to the consignee" is an option for FedEx when a truck breaks down. Once, when the truck we were driving broke down in Wyoming, I listened to a dispatcher run through her options to save the load. Tow to the consignee was one of them.

It did not happen. Another truck was dispatched to rescue the load off our truck and no service failure resulted because the freight arrived on time. Don't know who would have paid for the tow had the tow option been used. It would have sucked had the tow option been used. The delivery was in San Fransisco, CA. Diane and I would have had to ride in the tiny tow truck bunk with a tow truck team, and the truck was dirty inside. Though, the Wyoming tow truck guys got very excited when they learned FedEx was considering the tow option.

 

[Doggie Daddy]

As for finding a place to park for your 10 hr break,there are few if any areas in this entire country where you farther than 15 minutes away from a wally world,home depot,or sam's club.We have only been asked once in almost 4 years to leave one of these places,and that was a wal mart just south of atlanta.

 

[ACE]

Vehicles under 10,000 GVW do not need to log. But they need to log in certain states like Alabama,and if they carry placard hazmat they need to log that load.

All trucks over 10,000 but under 26,000 [Non CDL] GVW need to log if they are not a local delivery vehicle. By Local they must start and return to the same destination in a 14 hour period. They are allowed 2 days to extend the work hours to 16 hrs. They are allowed to travel an area of 150 air miles from there starting point. {Part 395 of the FMCSR}

This is a brief overview there are many exemptions for different fields. I would advise you stop at a truck stop and pick up The Federal Motor carrier safety regulations.

 

[Broompilot]

Driver 5? hit it on the head exactly correct. Doggy Daddy, I was just in Miami, there is no where I mean absolutly no where to park and I have been told to leave Walmarts in S. Florida even after droping there.

But if you ever deal with a patrolman ALWAYS get a badge number, they (police offers) do not have an issue with this at all as long you are not threatening them like (I will have your job) I also being the son of a policeman would not suggest you ever say those words to any of them ever! Having a badge number would clear you of any DOTs inquire.

Example last summer came upon a truck fire used my extinguisher, fireman gave me his badge number when I inquired (what happens if I get DOT'd) before I can get another one. Fire happened on a Friday Monday I got another one. The truck could not be saved arrived to late both tanks went up in flames.

 

[redytrk]

>
>I'm sure a lot of you remember that ridiculous story about
>the FedEx truck being towed into the consignee's yard and
>the driver having the truck unhitched and backing it into
>the dock. Apparently the truck had run out of hours. I
>never knew if that was a real story or someone with a subtle
>sense of humor. Maybe that's your solution--if you run out
>of hours call a tow truck.

This nearly happened to me. Shortly after the new 14 hr clock went into effect, the shipper used up my extra 3 hrs waiting at the dock.While en-route I informed dispatch I might run out of hours before reaching the consignee. They asked me to let them know my position one hour before my driving time was to run out.They would then arrange to have the truck towed the remaining miles. As it turned out I made it with 15 min to spare. Point is they were dead serious about the towing thing,and would have done it.

Don`t call the tow truck yourself, let dispatch call them. If it is clearly not your fault tow should not be at your expense.

 

[phatTweaker]

I asked a good friend of mine who drives semi about logging and asked what happens if your at a shipper and it takes longer then expected to get loaded and you run out of hours and the shipper wont let you shut down on his/her property.
He said the way he does it is to log by miles instead of hours. He said his company allows him to log 3 or 5 mph below the posted speed limit(not sure the exact number). He said that if he didn't log that way he wouldn't get enough miles to make decent money. He now is averaging 2800 miles per week.

I'm pretty sure his method isn't 100% legal, but he said it is 100% legal on paper.

take care

 

[LDB]

I'm not quite sure what your friend is referring to in 'log by miles' but am quite sure if the log isn't done in 15 minute intervals based on the correct time in the time zone of the company's domicile it is not legal as you suspected.

As to running out of time, I know there is a provision to extend the 14 hour limit to 16 hours based on severe weather causing inordinate delays. On the log it is marked something like 'exceeded hours moving to safe haven'. If I was forced to leave a shipper/consignee after my 14 because of their failure to deal with me in a timely fashion and refusal to provide me safe haven I'd log it that way and hope for a reasonable officer if stopped.

Leo Bricker, owner trucks 3034, 4958
OOIDA 677319
73's K5LDB
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[phatTweaker]

I'm still green with logs so I don't know really how to explain it. The way he explained it to me was if you take your mileage and log it at 5mph or so below the speed limit you can be legal on paper. Like for instance if you had to travel 100 miles on an interstate with a 70mph truck speed limit you'd divide 100 by 65 = 1.54 hours but in reality there was lets say a topless chick running down the middle of the interstate and caused a 3 hour traffic jam so in real time that 100 miles should've took 4.54 hours.

The only way I could see it working though is you'd have to shutdown at some point and let time catch back up...Maybe that explains why all the truck stops start filling up in the early evening..All those solar powered truckers waiting on their logs to catch up with them...lol I dunno like I said I'm green with logs.

take care