And yet another new van coming

[dancorn]

Here are two links to news articles on Sprinter style vans coming to the USA.

Fiat Vans to be Ram vans: Ducato, Doblo, Iveco Daily

End of the Ford Econoline marks a new era for great American vans | Motoramic - Yahoo! Autos

 

[purgoose10]

Good info. My only fear to the new vans and the EPA ruling about fuel mileage vs. weight. The lighter they make vans, yes they carry more but strength is the issue. I don't believe they will stand up like our older models. Loading 2-3k on a small vehicle stresses the vehicle, I don't believe the new models will stand it.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

I like the Daily model at 155" wheelbase....mines 158" ...so it would be a 3 skidder...

 

[skyraider]

Blair might order a dozen or so. If they do, you just follow their lead and roll baby roll. Follow the leader and don't reinvent the wheel.

 

[Rocketman]

Good info. My only fear to the new vans and the EPA ruling about fuel mileage vs. weight. The lighter they make vans, yes they carry more but strength is the issue. I don't believe they will stand up like our older models. Loading 2-3k on a small vehicle stresses the vehicle, I don't believe the new models will stand it.

It depends a lot on the engineering behind it. There has been a lot of advancement in materials technology, including metal and/or composites. I see it very possible to build something lighter, stronger and possibly even cheaper.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Oh the struggle for big and better and yet stay under 10,000 lbs...LOL....

 

[Turtle]

The biggest knock that people have with the Sprinter is the engine and its related maintenance costs. I think these same people are going to be in for a big surprise when they find out that these new vans, including the Ford vans, are very similar to Sprinters in more ways than body style.

 

[LDB]

I hope they don't take as long as Ford to get them here. I'd really like to compare/contrast the Daily and Transit before making a decision.

 

[LDB]

The biggest knock that people have with the Sprinter is the engine and its related maintenance costs. I think these same people are going to be in for a big surprise when they find out that these news vans, including the Ford vans, are very similar to Sprinters in more ways than body style.

Even with the Ecoboost gasoline engine?

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Turtle and i were talking the other week...we have been watching the Sprinters 11/12's performance closely....much improved over the 10's first year of DEF and MUCH improved over the 07's a FIRST year model..they were a train wreck much like the 02's when they first came over....

 

[Rocketman]

I think the Sprinter engines (engine only) may be the best small diesel engines ever produced. Its the EPA mandated emissions control systems that have ruined not only the Sprinter diesel engines, but every diesel engine. The 60 series Detroit engines were bulletproof until they were forced to put egr systems, enhanced egr systems, dpf filters and diesel exhaust fluid system on them.

The 2011 and 2012 engines overall do seem to be doing better on fuel mileage and hopefully will be less problematic. Just pray that you dont have to work on them. I asked a service manager at Freightliner about the new DD13 engines. He said he wasnt sure yet, performance seemed to be good. He also said that they had just replaced the exhaust system on one...under warranty. He told me that if the customer had been billed, the bill would have been in the $25,000 range.

These new vans and the new engines will likely more expensive to work on. Time will tell if they have their own problems. The eco-boost engine seems to have proven itself. Hopefully they don't have the mandated, integrated, self destructive emission control systems that diesel powered vehicles have.

 

[Turtle]

Rocketman nailed it, as usual. These new vans are going to be expensive to maintain and replace parts. The Ecoboost engine is proven, but it's still expensive to maintain. "Ecoboost" is the magical name for "turbocharged direct injection", not unlike the TDI (Turbo Diesel Injection) engine. They both work in exactly the same way, with the same expensive turbochargers and charged air cooling system. Mass airflow sensors, EGRs, temp sensors, all of it, working in concert with the ECU, same as the Sprinter.

People will get a Transit and go, "Hey, it's a Ford! I know how to maintain a Ford!" And they'll be wrong.

Despite there being "a list" of approved fluids, they'll use whatever oil they've been married to for years, use what they know for a 100% certainty is the best ATF money can buy, use their K&N air filters, and change the fluid when they know darn good and well when it's supposed to be changed (instead of when it's actually supposed to be changed), and then they'll know for a 100% certainty that their Ford Transit is a piece of crap, just like the Sprinters are.

Incidentally, my turbo is going bad in the Sprinter. I noticed it a few weeks ago when it started making what sounded like a slight and not very loud belt squeal right around 2000 RPMs as it shifted through the gears on acceleration. It's a little louder now, sounds more like a tea kettle, and a soapy solution sprayed onto the turbo revealed the leak. At the dealer a new OEM turbo is $2300. Book labor is two hours I think.

Don't think a new turbo on these new vans is going to be dramatically cheaper. They won't be.

I can get a new OEM turbo online for $1600, though. I got a new one from Turbocharger Pros for $695 and will reuse the electronic actuator. A newly rebuilt actuator is $550, or straight up used ones can be had on eBay for $300. My point is, people will have to be resourceful for these new vans, same as the Sprinter vans, otherwise they'll be screaming about how much it costs it maintain and repair these things.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Rocketman nailed it, as usual. These new vans are going to be expensive to maintain and replace parts. The Ecoboost engine is proven, but it's still expensive to maintain. "Ecoboost" is the magical name for "turbocharged direct injection", not unlike the TDI (Turbo Diesel Injection) engine. They both work in exactly the same way, with the same expensive turbochargers and charged air cooling system. Mass airflow sensors, EGRs, temp sensors, all of it, working in concert with the ECU, same as the Sprinter.

People will get a Transit and go, "Hey, it's a Ford! I know how to maintain a Ford!" And they'll be wrong.

Despite there being "a list" of approved fluids, they'll use whatever oil they've been married to for years, use what they know for a 100% certainty is the best ATF money can buy, use their K&N air filters, and change the fluid when they know darn good and well when it's supposed to be changed (instead of when it's actually supposed to be changed), and then they'll know for a 100% certainty that their Ford Transit is a piece of crap, just like the Sprinters are.

Incidentally, by turbo is going bad in the Sprinter. I noticed it a few weeks ago when it started making what sounded like a slight and not very loud belt squeal right around 2000 RPMs as it shifted through the gears on acceleration. It's a little louder now, sounds more like a tea kettle, and a soapy solution sprayed onto the turbo revealed the leak. At the dealer a new OEM turbo is $2300. Book labor is two hours I think.

Don't think a new turbo on these new vans is going to be dramatically cheaper. They won't be.

I can get a new OEM turbo online for $1600, though. I got a new one from Turbocharger Pros for $695 and will reuse the electronic actuator. A newly rebuilt actuator is $550, or straight up used ones can be had on eBay for $300. My point is, people will have to be resourceful for these new vans, same as the Sprinter vans, otherwise they'll be screaming about how much it costs it maintain and repair these things.

Not to mention some dealers won't be able to service the Transit....too tall and heavy for conventional hoists....same problem Nissan is going thru....raise the roof or lower the floor....LOL

 

[Rocketman]

Not to mention some dealers won't be able to service the Transit....too tall and heavy for conventional hoists....same problem Nissan is going thru....raise the roof or lower the floor....LOL

Ive had some of those problems with the CargoMax as well. Even the Chevy dealer at home kinda gives me that "look" when I talk to 'em. At least I know they will try if at all possible.

 

[Moot]

Don't think a new turbo on these new vans is going to be dramatically cheaper. They won't be.

In the case of the Ford 3.5L V-6, that would be turbo with an "s". These engines have two turbos. Normal wear and tear, replace one, replace both. Catastrophic failure, like a broken vane, debris could trash the second turbo.

 

[FlyingVan]

Rocketman nailed it, as usual. These new vans are going to be expensive to maintain and replace parts. The Ecoboost engine is proven, but it's still expensive to maintain. "Ecoboost" is the magical name for "turbocharged direct injection", not unlike the TDI (Turbo Diesel Injection) engine. They both work in exactly the same way, with the same expensive turbochargers and charged air cooling system. Mass airflow sensors, EGRs, temp sensors, all of it, working in concert with the ECU, same as the Sprinter.

People will get a Transit and go, "Hey, it's a Ford! I know how to maintain a Ford!" And they'll be wrong.

Despite there being "a list" of approved fluids, they'll use whatever oil they've been married to for years, use what they know for a 100% certainty is the best ATF money can buy, use their K&N air filters, and change the fluid when they know darn good and well when it's supposed to be changed (instead of when it's actually supposed to be changed), and then they'll know for a 100% certainty that their Ford Transit is a piece of crap, just like the Sprinters are.

Incidentally, my turbo is going bad in the Sprinter. I noticed it a few weeks ago when it started making what sounded like a slight and not very loud belt squeal right around 2000 RPMs as it shifted through the gears on acceleration. It's a little louder now, sounds more like a tea kettle, and a soapy solution sprayed onto the turbo revealed the leak. At the dealer a new OEM turbo is $2300. Book labor is two hours I think.

Don't think a new turbo on these new vans is going to be dramatically cheaper. They won't be.

I can get a new OEM turbo online for $1600, though. I got a new one from Turbocharger Pros for $695 and will reuse the electronic actuator. A newly rebuilt actuator is $550, or straight up used ones can be had on eBay for $300. My point is, people will have to be resourceful for these new vans, same as the Sprinter vans, otherwise they'll be screaming about how much it costs it maintain and repair these things.

Turtle,
Right on. I've been saying this all along. New vehicles of any kind are not easy to work on anymore. And I wouldn't be surprised if not all Ford dealers will be 'Transit qualified', something like dodge's problem with the sprinters.

Off topic. Sorry about your turbo issues. How many miles on your Sprinter? Were you able to easily change it yourself?




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[Turtle]

476253 miles on the Sprinter. It's leaking at a seal on the turbo itself, so it could probably be worked up with a rebuild kit that replaces all the seals and a few other things. But it's a lot of work and you still end up with and old turbo that's stressed and prone to failure. Replacing the whole thing with a reman or new is a better way to go on. If it's a personal vehicle that won't leave you stranded 1500 miles from home, that's one thing, and a rebuild kit might be the way to go. But in a critical application like an OTR work truck, you want solid and reliable. Turbos, like alternators and a few other parts, are parts you don't want to mess with by using cheap pieces of crap from China or quick and dirty and cheap that won't last.

I haven't replaced it yet. I'll do that next week when I have to be home for a doctor's appointment. I could do it myself, but I've never done one before, so it would take me about 4 or 5 hours instead of an hour and a half. I'll have my regular Sprinter tech do it. Gonna have them replace a couple of glow plugs while they're at it.

The glow plugs and the turbo should be delivered to the house on Wed or so. I also ordered all the gaskets and o-rings that will need to be replaced when the turbo is replaced. New seals should be.used for the oil feed and return lines, and where the turbo attaches to the manifold.

So I've certainly got everything needed to replace it myself, but instead of taking all day to do it, they'll replace it while I'm at the doctor.

 

[zorry]

Curious,In an OTR lite duty situation how many miles does one normally get from a Sprinter. Whats the highest mileage heard of ?

I once would be shuttled to a hotel in a Dodge mini-van. Nice vehicle. It had 400,000 miles of numerous 40 mile trips to trucking companies.
One "driver" tried to convince us how Heroin would improve our lives. Thinking of the entire crew of drivers made me admire that van even more.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

I got 695k before the engine went, actually timing chain. Now have 721k
Never changed a turbo in it and only 1 injector. Done front brakes twice and rears once and 1 tranny change.

 

[Turtle]

1.1 million (and counting) is the highest I know of with absolute certainty, but I have heard of 1.3 million. There's a guy who delivers bulk bundles of the Louisville Courier-Journal to western KY from Louisville. Drives more than 500 miles a day, six days a week. He has nearly all of his maintenance done at a small garage in Paducah (Troy's Auto Repair). He's the one with 1.1 million on his. The Paducah UPS terminal has their Sprinters serviced there, too. Troy services a lot of high mileage Sprinters. Says most will get 800,000 give or take, but it depends on how much they idle and how well maintained they are.