America the Baby Sitter

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
Does anyone remember Elian Gonzalez, and the efforts taken by the Clinton administration to literally rip him from the arms of his relatives in the US so he could be sent back to his father in Cuba? Shouldn't these runaways be reunited with their parents in the same manner?

Cubans fleeing the Castro regime were broadly seen as conservatives. Marco Rubio speaks to that subject often. The Clinton administration was not about to send a mixed message as to whether Cuban refugees could stay in this country.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/elian-gonzalez-leaves-cuba-time-2000-article-1.1542035
 
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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I believe that only applies to children at the border by themselves.
Well, yeah, that's what "Unaccompanied minors at the border" means.

If they are with a mother, which is most at this point, it falls under another law which is what Obama is hanging his hat on to send them back.
Most is kind of relative (pun untended). And it depends on which country they are from. Canadian and Mexican children, with and without parents, are treated under the law differently than those from other countries, like Guatemala and other Central American countries.

The numbers from Mexico are actually down, while the numbers from countries south of Mexico are up dramatically.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
There is a school of thought which holds that Obama and the Democrats are manufacturing this border crisis with the intent of making the situation so emotional and heartwrenching that the mean old Republicans will cave on comprehensive immigration reform; thereby granting the Democrats a complete victory on the issue.
Yes. That's from the Conservative State University of Aѕѕhattery's School of Ignorance and Idiocy where they also teach that the Obama administration is so keen on not deporting them because of demographic and politics in an effort to change the voting population 10-15 years down the road. It's the same school of higher learning that conveniently omits teaching the fact that this can all be traced directly back to Junior.

The deliberate refusal to enforce immigration and border control policy has created this mess. Send the children back to their home country and secure the border or what we are witnessing today will be just one of many human wave assaults on our nation. Fix the problem or simply stop pretending we have borders.
Republicans blame Democrats for it, and Democrats blame Republicans for it, but the reality is the deliberate refusal to enforce immigration and border control policy has been perpetuated by every administration since the beginning of the Bracero Program in 1942 which encouraged the importation of Mexicans for cheap labor during the war. After the program ended, Republicans still favored the cheap labor and the Democrats favored he changing demographics, so both turned a blind eye to it all. The American people overwhelmingly want the borders closed and illegal immigration to stop, yet those in power clearly don't.

Junior doubled the number of Border Patrol agents to the current 21,000, which should be plenty enough to seriously stem the tide along the 1,954 mile border (that's 10.75 agents per mile). The problem is, the vast majority of agents are assigned to duties where illegal immigration is a low levels. Whenever one area gets beefed up, the illegals and smugglers simply move to an area left unguarded. Agents already in place don't want to take manpower from current assignments because that would open up those crossings to more illegals.

And you can't just quickly move agents to other places, you first have to negotiate the reassignments with the Border Patrol Council, the union which represents the agents. They have a collective bargaining agreement which protects everything from duty stations to the use of cell phones while on the clock. If you're assigned to a plush 72 degree San Diego, the last thing you're likely to do is volunteer for an assignment in 115 degree Buttcrack Nowhere, Texas in the Rio Grande Valley. Instead of deploying agents along the border, they are stacked up near the populated areas. They drag the dirt roads with old tractor tires so they can check the next day for footprints of people who illegally crossed, but they don't go back out there that night to catch the next group of people trying to cross. Instead they go 30 miles north and park, sitting there looking for someone who might have crossed 2 days ago and is still wandering around in the scrub brush.

The US Border Patrol is a government-run operation, and like every other government-run operation in the history of the US government-run operations it's broken, convoluted, impotent, and expensive. The fact that the politicians, both Republican and Democrat since 1942 don't want it to work, isn't helping the situation. If they wanted to secure and close the borders, they could do it today, right now.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Does anyone remember Elian Gonzalez, and the efforts taken by the Clinton administration to literally rip him from the arms of his relatives in the US so he could be sent back to his father in Cuba? Shouldn't these runaways be reunited with their parents in the same manner?
In order to be reunited with their parents in the same manner, their parents would have to file a custody lawsuit in the same way that Elian Gonzalez's father did, and have it contested by other family members who have current custody of these runaways.

It should also be noted that the US didn't send Elian back to his father in Cuba, they handed Elian over to his father in Miami, who had come to the States to argue for his return. It was only after the Supreme Court rejecting the Miami relatives' efforts to get him back did the the father and son return to Cuba.

It should also be noted that the efforts weren't taken up by "the Clinton administration," they were taken up by "US Immigration officials."

It always cracks me up when "<insert president here> administration" gets used as a pejorative, as if <insert president here> gathered up everyone in his administration and decided how to handle this or that situation, completely ignoring the fact that government agencies have their own set of rules and regulations and are on auto-pilot most of the time.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Well, yeah, that's what "Unaccompanied minors at the border" means.

Most is kind of relative (pun untended). And it depends on which country they are from. Canadian and Mexican children, with and without parents, are treated under the law differently than those from other countries, like Guatemala and other Central American countries.

The numbers from Mexico are actually down, while the numbers from countries south of Mexico are up dramatically.

I thought your post #14 needed expanded on. What you have here is spot on.
 

Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
It always cracks me up when "<insert president here> administration" gets used as a pejorative, as if <insert president here> gathered up everyone in his administration and decided how to handle this or that situation, completely ignoring the fact that government agencies have their own set of rules and regulations and are on auto-pilot most of the time.
But then the whiners on both sides of an argument would not be able to point fingers and cry --- SEE, SEE, SEE! :rolleyes:
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
But then the whiners on both sides of an argument would not be able to point fingers and cry --- SEE, SEE, SEE! :rolleyes:
Exactly. The whining is always the same. The only thing that changes is who is doing the whining, depending on who is in the White House. If it's the other guy, he's all up in it wrong, but if it's their guy, he's doing a fine job. Meanwhile, the various agencies are still chugging along on autopilot, doing the same things they always do.
 

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
But then the whiners on both sides of an argument would not be able to point fingers and cry --- SEE, SEE, SEE! :rolleyes:

Ragman, are you advocating for an open borders policy? Don't be afraid to have an opinion. What is your solution to the illegal immigration fiasco? Do you care enough to have an opinion? It's easy to criticize EO members for sharing an opinion. Please share yours for evaluation.
 

Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Ragman, are you advocating for an open borders policy? Don't be afraid to have an opinion. What is your solution to the illegal immigration fiasco? Do you care enough to have an opinion? It's easy to criticize EO members for sharing an opinion. Please share yours for evaluation.
Absolutely not. My opinion is to close the borders right now! However, with that said, I am a realist and know that will not happen. Building walls and electric fences won't work. Never did, and never will.

I do not know the solution, but pointing fingers at whoever is the President (Dem or Rep) and saying it is his fault is not going to get us anywhere. This has been a problem for as long as I can remember, regardless who was president.
 

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
Absolutely not. My opinion is to close the borders right now! However, with that said, I am a realist and know that will not happen. Building walls and electric fences won't work. Never did, and never will.

I do not know the solution, but pointing fingers at whoever is the President (Dem or Rep) and saying it is his fault is not going to get us anywhere. This has been a problem for as long as I can remember, regardless who was president.

You got it right. Close the borders. There is no good reason not to have an orderly and enforceable immigration and border policy. Shame on all our presidents who looked the other way. The rule of law itself is being undermined to the benefit of a few and to the detriment of us all.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Absolutely not. My opinion is to close the borders right now! However, with that said, I am a realist and know that will not happen. Building walls and electric fences won't work. Never did, and never will..

Fence and drones seems to be popular. :cool:
 

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
Another thought on the ridiculous idea that we cannot secure our southern border: God forbid it should ever be proven that a terrorist attack on this nation occurred because the federal government wasn't serious about border enforcement. If it should ever happen that a terrorist attack resulted from poor border enforcement, watch how quickly the Mexican border is shut down. Shut down permanently. The stupidity of allowing porous borders boggles the mind. Radical extremists in the Middle East get satellite television. Why must we wait until something horrible happens?
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Shoot to kill, wouldn't be popular.
It would work.

Works for a lot of other countries. As mentioned, border could easily be shutdown but politics on both sides keep it flowing freely.
 
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