America: Freedom to Fascism

[Streakn1]

Have you ever questioned the legality of the "Federal" government charging income taxes on your hard earned wages? Have you ever actually seen or read the federal law passed in 1913 that requires working Americans to pay income tax? If not, you may be suprised!

There was a DVD in our last Netflex shipment that was a REEEAL eye opener for us to view. It is Arron Russo's America: Freedom to Fascism.This is a MUST SEE documentary that will definately provoke questions in your mind. Aaron Russo has a notable background in producing movies such as "The Rose" with Bette Midler and other well known movies, etc. It appears he researched this documentary well.

It will be interesting to read other's opinions on this one once viewed!

 

[Jayman]

If your driving on a road paid for out of tax dollars...should it matter?

 

[highway star]

Good point Jayman. We have a vast infrastructure that everyone benefits from and it only makes sense that everyone should help pay for it. Be it building and maintaining roads, police protection, judicial system, fire departments, ect., ect...

The anti-tax radicals seem to think they shouldn't have to participate. And, there probably is a better way to do it than the current system. Maybe a national sales tax. After the OKC bombing these people had a spotlight on them. People who became crusaders after they lost homes because they didn't pay property taxes. I never heard one of them give a coherent reason why they should be exempt.

There's lots of opinions on what the method of collection should be. Whatever the method, we all should pay our fair share.

 

[Streakn1]

First let me clarify, I for one am not a "Anti Tax Radical". By bringing up this documentary film on this forum I'm in no way attempting to suggest anyone not pay thier Federal Income Tax. I for one obey the laws of this land and pay my taxes without "protest".

I am simply suggesting that anyone interested in seeing how the income tax law came about in 1913 and is applied in today's time watch this documentary. Like myself, I'm willing to bet that the majority have never actually seen the law requiring each working American to pay the Federal Government tax on thier wages. Is it not worthy of reading?

If you reseach it you will find the roads we all travel on daily are funded through the fuel and highway use taxes we pay on our commercial vehicles and the taxes every driving American pays at the pumps. Additional funding comes from highway tolls.Other services of course are paid for by local, state and federal taxing.

This documentary shows us the actual history of the "Federal Income Tax Law which was passed in 1913 and discusses how the IRS applies it.Federal Reserve Bank is also discussed.

 

[bryan]

Hi

I wonder how our goverment managed from 1779 thru 1913 without this tax.Oh thats right they managed money back then. Not spend it faster than they can collect it like they do now.

Does anybody know how our goverment spending stacks up to other countries?

 

[Jayman]

Good points, Bryan. Although, I think it was easier for them to manage money back then since we didnt take on as much. Dirt roads are pretty cheap to build. But, I know there is more to the money story than that.

For what its worth...I wonder at times if a national sales tax instead of an income tax would be better? Some items would be taxed at the point of sale, some items would not. Diapers, food (in grocery store), medicine, etc would not be taxed. Items that are taxed could have a varible rate of tax depending on what the item is.

 

[cheri1122]

No American with an ounce of civic responsibility objects to paying taxes - we like our roads, police & fire service, schools, libraries, public parks & boat ramps, etc.
We do object to taxes that are levied as a 'temporary' measure, but become a permanent fixture - the 2006 tax refund of the long distance telephone tax is a great example, having been levied in 1898, as a 'luxury tax' to help fund the Spanish-American War!
We also object to the piling on of taxes & fees - my current phone/internet bill contains Federal and sales taxes, plus surcharges for the County 911 system, and a "Federal Universal Service Fee", and a "Federal Access Charge" which add $15.00 to the original $35.00 cost - a pretty steep increase, in my opinion.
I recently received an email listing a lot of fees that didn't exist 100 years ago - it was quite an eye opener as to just how deep the government and business interests have their hand in our pockets!
The fact that all that money is paying for a war we shouldn't be in, and the incessant pay increases for our 'public servants' [the new Chief Justice of The Supreme is currently insisting that a pay raise is necessary for the poor judges], while schools keep having levies to raise money, and charging for extracurricular activities, and eliminating such 'extras' as driver's ed, ought to have every taxpayer in revolt. Libraries are cutting hours, public parks are eliminating services, the list of what taxes no longer cover is quite long, and shameful, and rather than piling more on us poor taxpayers, how about if we insist the government start collecting taxes from the many corporations that currently skate?

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Ah yes... Woody Wilson. The same man who signed the 16th Amendment into law giving us an income tax, also gave away our Federal Reserve to a private entity. Most of us don't know the extent that institution serves, and we have no control over it. What a puppet that stooge was.

Believe it or not, our income tax does not provide the bulk of the federal taxes. Corporate tax does.

I've heard the way the income tax was worded was that it's VOLUNTARY. However, no elected official will ever admit that. I also read that it's against the Constitution to federally tax a service. They are supposed to tax sales. Being that I read this off the net, it's something I have to view as gossip.

If our beloved government could quit spending OUR arses off, giving away OUR money, and start using common sense when dictating how OUR taxes are spent, we would have no need for an income OR federal sales tax.

"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know." - Kansas

 

[greg334]

Taxes?

Well I do abject to paying income taxes, it is a punishment and is has nothing to do with Civic Responsibility. The fire, police and other civic services are not a federal responsibility; it is local responsibility and has nothing to do with my income. The problem I have is that there is a property tax on real property, which is against the concept of property ownership and the basis for our form of government. I mean that in the last 2 years my vacant 10 acres in a rural area of Michigan went from $385 to $835 in property taxes and in consideration of the value of the property, it essentially is a form of rent at that level.

First this I am going to throw in the mix is that the Federal Reserve System was actually established under the Grant administration but not really expanded to include the production of paper money and the elimination of state/private currency until 1912.

As for Wilson, the great peace monger, he didn’t have much to do with the amendment but it was ratified under his administration. It was started under the Taft administration and I think (I maybe wrong) that TR was not happy with this which this idea of income tax went against the progressive platform (the real progressive platform not the liberal one we have today).

As for taxes, I support the Fair Tax (Fairtax.org) only because I have yet seen something that seems to look like it will work in our country. I know a lot of you will say that it is not a good thing but our income tax system now was intended to be changed and the idea of experimenting with something else is a good thing, not a bad thing. What can be the worst we have to deal with? No IRS? No 125,000 people on the federal payroll?

 

[Crazynuff]

>Good points, Bryan. Although, I think it was easier for
>them to manage money back then since we didnt take on as
>much. Dirt roads are pretty cheap to build. But, I know
>there is more to the money story than that.
>
>For what its worth...I wonder at times if a national sales
>tax instead of an income tax would be better? Some items
>would be taxed at the point of sale, some items would not.
>Diapers, food (in grocery store), medicine, etc would not be
>taxed. Items that are taxed could have a varible rate of
>tax depending on what the item is.
You might be interested in the book on the fair tax . I'm not sure of the title but put fair tax in search at amazon.com or bn.com and it should bring it up . There is a movement to replace the income tax with a consumption tax - you are taxed on what you buy . The biggest plus is it collects taxes from drug dealers , prostitutes , bookies , and others that let us bear the tax burden in the past .

 

[Tennesseahawk]

>The biggest plus is it collects taxes from drug dealers , prostitutes , >bookies , and others that let us bear the tax burden in the past .

Let's not forget the "undocumented workers".

"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know." - Kansas

 

[highway star]

The government has addressed the definition of "voluntary" in court cases when the anti-tax folks have used that to get out of paying. It refers to us "voluntarily" sending in our tax forms in April, as opposed to having a tax collector going door to door as they did back when.

 

[guest]

most everyone realizes while we need taxes for roads,military ect.
something has got to be done about property taxes.Very few middle class working people will be able to hang on to their homes when they retire.Property taxes and inflated values will force them to sell.No other large tax is calculated on unrealized gains.If you buy a house for 80,000 and 10 years later they are valuing it at 200,000
your taxes are going thru the roof.The upper class would never stand for their investments,stocks ect to be taxed in this way.Taxes on stocks are paid when you sell.paid only one year.and only on the gain.just another way the middle class is getting screwed.

 

[Broompilot]

Personal Income Tax should be considered an invasion to our Privacy. What business does or should the Govt have in how or what I do to earn a living? Think about it, does a drug dealer pay taxes and report what he sells?

Its not an even playing field, people who are paid in cash pay less % than you or I do. There just needs to be a flat tax on purcahses, with all of the loop holes and the super rich finding ways out of paying taxes it is completely unfair that the Middle Class continues to support our Goverenment. Is it not?

As for all other taxes they need to go only where they are designated for. Gasoline Tax in North Carolina goes into the GENERAL FUND as does it in many other States. Why when I fuel in Vermont, should my fuel tax money go into anything else other than that? Why do they decide where our hard earned dollars should be directed.

I am all in support of Taxes, I just do not want to subsideze submarine research in Utah when paying Fuel Tax in Utah.

 

[lanier1]

I am not going to quote the numbers here. You can do the research yourselves and it isn't hard to verify that the so called rich in this country pay a huge portion of all taxes collected. Its a fact people, the rich do pay taxes, corporations pay taxes and we pay taxes. Corporations, however, are businesses and really don't pay taxes in the end. What do you think they do when taxes are raised on them? They increase the cost of whatever it is they produce or provide to offset it. Whats wrong with that? Nothing. They are in business and thats a correct business decision. So who do you think ends up paying for that tax increase on the big bad corporation? Thats right, you and I do through increased prices on goods. Now imagine if that corporation had no tax liability.

When was the last time any of us were earning a good living working for a poor person? I don't know about the rest of you but I want the rich to be profitable and corporations to be successful. If they are they may be able to hire more people or afford to pay more to get thier goods moved on my truck.

 

[Broompilot]

I disagree with you Lane,

Sure the rich do pay the majority of the taxes dollar wise those making more than 100K but they also get the largest deductions such as up to 30K into tax defereed accounts (to large of loop hole) 10 or 12 gift tax without paying any income tax on that amount. They can also purcahse second homes, using the loop hole to sell it and avoid all taxes. It is the loop holes I would love to see stop!

Dumb that I would ever think that the rich do not invest back into the economy, as so do I.

But I have a hard enough time maxing my IRA, my taxes are probably gona be 4 times more than I will put into my IRA. Its unporotunatiate % wise, thus a flat tax would be more fare all the way accross the board and I would no longer have a gripe about loop holes for the rich, or the middle class actually supporting this country and even the poor contrubuting something.

PS by the way the rich sure do seem to sock it to the dissadvantage in fees, higher intrest rates, etc.... thru borrowing. You ask How simple most rich have large stock portfolios, and mutual funds that invest into the banking system that preys on those who can least afford it. (Look into your mailbox and see how many credit card offers are stuffed into it). Thus banking stocks keep rising profiting those large portfolios at the cost of all of society.

Hey Tcall see I do have some Liberal thoughts.....

 

[greg334]

Broom

you said;'Hey Tcall see I do have some Liberal thoughts.....'

Don't fall for the liberal trap of us against them thing that they like to use when talking about taxes.

I don't really care what Bill Gates pays in income tax becuase it don't matter to me or my family. What matters is what I pay now and if I ever achieve that goal of having wealth equal to Bill Gate's interest of his interest of his Dog's investments, I would hope I would pay as much taxes as the law allows me to do.

I say support the Fair Tax, go to http://www.fairtax.org and learn about it before you say it won't work.

 

[lanier1]

Predatory lending practices is a different subject altogether. As for my mail box being crammed full of offers from credit card companies that is another case where I don't expect anyone to look out for me but myself. If I am stupid enough to max out every credit card I have and file bankruptcy when I can't make the payments there is noone to blame but myself. Frankly I don't want the government meddling in any part of my life that isn't absolutely necessary.

According to the Treasury Dept. the top 1% of income earners (the filthy rich) earn 16.5% of total income and pay 33.7% of all taxes collected. Bump it up to the top 5% of income earners and they earn 31% of all income and pay 54.1% of all taxes. The bottom 50% of income earners earn 13.9% of all income and only pay 3.6% of the taxes collected.

I too am a proponent of the fair tax as Greg suggests.