Alec Baldwin

[danthewolf00]

Mr liberal did something very stupid and fired a prop gun on a movie set BEFORE inspecting it for blank shells or live ammo.
The armourer and prop person also failed in inspecting the gun before handing it off to Baldwin.....but he is both the lead actor and producer on the set of "rust".
The union workers walked off the set the day before....so alec hired unproven scabs to do the work.....he got what he paid for and should see jail time.

 

[LDB]

Oh, get on with you now. It isn't his fault. After all, he's a democrat so he hates guns and gun people. Just an awful accident. Nothing to see there.

 

[Pilgrim]

It will be interesting to see how this plays out with the New Mexico authorities. If this was your average Joe Sixpack, he'd probably have already been charged with involuntary manslaughter. There seems to be some question if this wealthy celebrity actor will be charged at all. However, the civil litigation will go on for years, his Hollywood career is over, and we've seen his last SNL appearance - maybe.

 

[danthewolf00]

At least 3 people are responsible for the death.
1.armorer
2.props person
3. Alec Baldwin
All 3 had a job to do with safety and failed.

 

[Ragman]

....so alec hired unproven scabs to do the work.....he got what he paid for ......

Interesting usage of words.

 

[danthewolf00]

Interesting usage of words.

Well the union workers walked off do to safety issues the day before ..... only scabs cross a union.

 

[Pilgrim]

"Scab" is a well known term for non-union workers hired by employers to take jobs that would normally be done by unionized employees.

The larger issue in Baldwin's case is that he or other producers hired unqualified workers to fill critical positions, threatening the safety of others. It sounds like they were guilty of gross negligence with the management of this low-budget project that resulted in disaster.

 

[Ragman]

Well the union workers walked off do to safety issues the day before ..... only scabs cross a union.

I just surprised me. I would have thought a person from your side of the political spectrum would have used "replacement workers".

Nothing wrong using "scab".

 

[danthewolf00]

I know history with the auto unions lol
And for a union worker to walk off a job it's got to be a serious safety issue.....and they ALL walked away at once.

 

[Turtle]

Mr liberal did something very stupid and fired a prop gun on a movie set BEFORE inspecting it for blank shells or live ammo.

No. One, it's not a prop gun, it's a real gun. A prop gun cannot be loaded with anything, including blanks, dummy rounds, or live ammunition.

Two, it is specifically not an actor's responsibility to inspect a weapon that they are given by the weapons experts. Weapons Masters don't know anything about acting, actors don't know anything about weapons. That's why they don't put actors in charge of weapon safety.

 

[danthewolf00]

No. One, it's not a prop gun, it's a real gun. A prop gun cannot be loaded with anything, including blanks, dummy rounds, or live ammunition.

Two, it is specifically not an actor's responsibility to inspect a weapon that they are given by the weapons experts. Weapons Masters don't know anything about acting, actors don't know anything about weapons. That's why they don't put actors in charge of weapon safety.

Then Keane Reeves does things differently then because he went and got training by professional shooters on a gun range.
Alec Baldwin was both the lead actor and producer of the movie which means he was the head honcho....
I guess I have more common sense because I would trust nobody to tell me if the gun was loaded correctly....but then again I am not a basement dwelling liberal that is afraid of that mean gun.

 

[Pilgrim]

No. One, it's not a prop gun, it's a real gun. A prop gun cannot be loaded with anything, including blanks, dummy rounds, or live ammunition.

Two, it is specifically not an actor's responsibility to inspect a weapon that they are given by the weapons experts. Weapons Masters don't know anything about acting, actors don't know anything about weapons. That's why they don't put actors in charge of weapon safety.

One, you're right - it was a real gun, a Pietta single action revolver. For those not familiar with this type of firearm, the hammer must be cocked before the trigger is pulled every time the gun is fired.

Two, I gotta disagree with this analysis on several points. First of all, Baldwin has acted in a few movies over the years that have required him to use handguns, so he should have had some instruction in the rules of firearms safety and retained some of that knowledge. He's 63 years old, so maybe he should've taken a refresher course on gun safety and the characteristics of single action revolvers as part of his research for his outlaw character in this movie about the old west. Secondly, the 24 year-old armorer was a stand-in and apparently not an expert with firearms and ammo. The assistant director also had been fired from an earlier production for allowing a negligent discharge of a firearm on a set. Baldwin was a producer at least partially responsible for hiring these people and should have been familiar with their backgrounds and their lack of expertise.

Finally, the most fundamental safety rule is to ALWAYS assume EVERY gun is loaded and must be immediately checked and made safe when one takes possession. It was Baldwin's responsibility to do this regardless of what he was told by anyone else. Keep in mind he knew ahead of time that he was going to point the gun at the camera and the people around it. That brings up rule #2 - "never point a gun at anything you don't intend to shoot", so in a movie scene that makes Rule #1 even more important. In Baldwin's case he intentionally drew the gun, cocked the hammer and pulled the trigger without having cleared it first, resulting in a negligent discharge.

 

[Turtle]

My comments aren't an analysis, it's simply how things work on a movie set. I've been on a few movie sets, and am good friends for more than 20 years with an actress who won her Academy Award for playing a serial killer.

Except in rare circumstances, actors aren't given instruction or training in firearms safety any more than they're given instruction on electrical safety or camera boom operation safety.

Often actors are taught how to fire a weapon and are of course given the requisite safety training at that time, but weapons safety is not their job on set, because live ammunition is not, or shouldn't be, a factor.

The only weapons safety instruction that actors get for on-set behavior is to never pick up a weapon off the weapons cart unless it is handed to them by a weapons master or someone else charged with weapons safety of that weapon. When an actor is handed a gun and is told it is a hot weapon, it means the gun is loaded with live blanks. If they say it's a cold gun, then the gun is either loaded with dummy rounds (that look like real bullets, except for one small detail, but do not contain any explosive material and thus cannot discharge), or nothing at all.

Baldwin was a producer at least partially responsible for hiring these people and should have been familiar with their backgrounds and their lack of expertise.

Possibly, but we don't know for sure what segments of the production he dealt with. He may have only dealt with shooting locations, or hiring the people who dealt with shooting locations. He may have only dealt with post-production editing. Who knows. But the smaller the budget, the more hands off the producers tend to be. And this movie is a pretty small budget.

Also, you can't use real world logic and safety measures in the land of make believe where live ammunition isn't even supposed to be on set in the first place. You can claim it was Baldwin's responsibility to clear the gun before firing it, and in the real world with real ammunition you're exactly right, but on a movie set that responsibility is explicitly someone else's. It's precisely why actors can point guns at cameras, people and other things they do not intend to shoot, and then pull the trigger.

 

[danthewolf00]

Alec Baldwin said on tv that billions of bullets are fired on movie sets......this right here is why hes dangerous....hes ignorant of how guns work both on a movie set and in the real world....he is why the union workers walked off I think....
The fact that he fired the gun twice at a Camara with NO safety glass protection says alot about the set.

 

[Turtle]

The fact that he fired the gun twice at a Camara with NO safety glass protection says alot about the set.

You don't really need safety glasses when firing a cold gun. The fact that even one round of live ammunition was on set in the first place says safety protocols were not followed.

A movie set is a confused mess with dozens of people wandering around. It's not even organized chaos, it's just plain chaos. It's the last place you would want to see guns and live ammunition laying around.

There may be scenes where you want to film a gun firing lives rounds at a target and see the bullets hit that target, but that's a Second Unit filming crew thing, not principle photography, and it's done in either a different location or a different time, and weapons experts, not actors, are doing the firing.

It's just beyond the pale that live ammunition was on set. Even if someone in the cast or crew wanted to do a little target practice out in the desert, it wouldn't be done with a gun that would be used on the set. You bring your own gun for that.

 

[Pilgrim]

Also, you can't use real world logic and safety measures in the land of make believe where live ammunition isn't even supposed to be on set in the first place. You can claim it was Baldwin's responsibility to clear the gun before firing it, and in the real world with real ammunition you're exactly right, but on a movie set that responsibility is explicitly someone else's. It's precisely why actors can point guns at cameras, people and other things they do not intend to shoot, and then pull the trigger.

That's certainly conceivable, to a point. However, that point is reached when the real world overlaps with the Hollywood world of make-believe at the time Baldwin took possession of the firearm. Just because he's distracted by staying in character, concerned about the camera angle and how he's going to look in the existing light doesn't absolve him of the responsibility of making sure the deadly weapon in his hand has been made safe. This article looks at his situation from the perspective of possible criminal liability, and makes some good points:

Legal Analysis: Alec Baldwin Situation Beginning to Look a Lot Like Manslaughter

The more we learn about the facts of this case, within the context of New Mexico criminal law, the more this shooting looks increasingly like a crime—specifically, felony involuntary manslaughter.

legalinsurrection.com

But looking at this situation from a practical as well as legal perspective, Baldwin the Actor will likely get off the hook for criminal charges due to having the best lawyers money can buy and the considerable economic impact the movie industry has in New Mexico. On the other hand, Baldwin the Producer could be in a world of hurt along with the other principals of the Rust production. The state of New Mexico has no limitations on punitive damages, and the family of the victim will show no mercy towards Baldwin or any of the others responsible for the obvious negligence on the set.

Jonathan Turley: Alec Baldwin shooting – what are the criminal and civil liabilities?

Within 24 hours of actor Alec Baldwin fatally shooting one person and wounding another, witnesses have raised questions of negligent and unsafe practice on the site for the low-budget film, "Rust."

www.foxnews.com

The litigation will likely drag on for years, but Baldwin has considerable resources behind him, not the least of which is NBC and very likely a highly competent crisis management team which is already planting snippets in the media to make him look like a victim. By January the public will have been distracted by the next shiny object, the true victims will have been paid off and Baldwin will lay low until the 2022 political season is over. It will be like it never happened.

 

[danthewolf00]

Ahhh alec Baldwin is the executive producer so yea he's looking at possible jail time.
And turtle ballistic glass is used when blanks are fired at the camera to protect the crew from the wad and powder. Had that glass shield been up there might not have been any injuries.

 

[muttly]

So is the Academy award winning actress that portrayed a serial killer, Sharon Stone?

 

[Ragman]

I know history with the auto unions lol
And for a union worker to walk off a job it's got to be a serious safety issue.....and they ALL walked away at once.

So then, you're ok with the term "scab"?

 

[Turtle]

However, that point is reached when the real world overlaps with the Hollywood world of make-believe at the time Baldwin took possession of the firearm.

It really doesn't. The real world ends right when the person explicitly charged enduring the safety of the gun tells the actors that it's a cold gun. In the land of make believe a cold gun isn't even a firearm, it's a hunk of metal prop.

Baldwin the Actor will likely get off the hook for criminal charges due to having the best lawyers money can buy and the considerable economic impact the movie industry has in New Mexico.

He'll likely get off, but not for that reason. He'll get off because he was in no way responsible for making sure it was unloaded after being told it was a cold gun and with love ammo not even supposed to be on the set.

On the other hand, Baldwin the Producer could be in a world of hurt along with the other principals of the Rust production

That much is very likely, even if Baldwin didn't deal directly with the hiring of the crew.

I disdain Baldwin as much as the next red-blooded conservative with a brain, but that doesn't mean he was somehow responsible for something he wasn't responsible for.