AGM Batteries

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
Joe, I am gettin ready to start gettin the "stuff" together to upfit my new van and I just had this conversation with Turtle the day before yesterday. Trojan came out with new Deep Cycle 31 group AGM 12 volt battery that they designed for 12 volt apu's and i was cosidering them...but after talking with Turtle and considering how touchy the charging of the AGM's can be, Ill be buying a few bigger high amp output 6 volt industrial floor grubber batteries..

They AGMs as well as good 6 volts will do the job, it is all about your mp needs....

I know you have read this, but take a look at it and read it again, it might help you:

http://www.expeditersonline.com/forum/truck-talk/44862-new-battery-bank.html

I know the "maintainance" free side of the AGM's make them attractive, but the charging issues made me go back to the 6 volts and maintaining them...
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Joe, I am gettin ready to start gettin the "stuff" together to upfit my new van and I just had this conversation with Turtle the day before yesterday. Trojan came out with new Deep Cycle 31 group AGM 12 volt battery that they designed for 12 volt apu's and i was cosidering them...but after talking with Turtle and considering how touchy the charging of the AGM's can be, Ill be buying a few bigger high amp output 6 volt industrial floor grubber batteries..

They AGMs as well as good 6 volts will do the job, it is all about your mp needs....

I know you have read this, but take a look at it and read it again, it might help you:

http://www.expeditersonline.com/forum/truck-talk/44862-new-battery-bank.html

I know the "maintainance" free side of the AGM's make them attractive, but the charging issues made me go back to the 6 volts and maintaining them...


I know the charging problems, I don't know if a truck would handle these. They are a 6 volt. I like the high Amp hour on them as well as the maintainance.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
L16 batteries are serious batteries. They're floor scrubbers, and you can get them in AGM or wet cell configurations. Wet cell and AGM batteries need different voltages to prolerly charge. Unlike wet batteries, where you can charge them with a relative low voltage but just for a longer period of time, AGM batteries will not fully charge unless the charging voltage is high enough (14.4-14.6, usually closer to 14.6 volts). So if your starting and other batteries on the truck are wet cells, the vehicle's alternator will not properly charge AGM (or gell) batteries, since the alternator will be outputting the correct voltage for the wet cells (13.6-14.2).

If you have AGMs for the cranking batteries, then adding AGMs for the house bank is fine.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Yeah, thats what I thought. I was hoping for the maintainance free aspect but , I guess it ain't gonna happen. That would be a good battery in the wet cell version though, would it not?
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Yeah, thats what I thought. I was hoping for the maintainance free aspect but , I guess it ain't gonna happen. That would be a good battery in the wet cell version though, would it not?
Yes, it would. I'd have them under my bunk, but they are half an inch too tall to have room for all the hardware.

If you look at the link Chef posted, at Post #11 I listed the various sizes, which includes the Trojan line of L16s. If you get those, be sure to get Water Miser battery caps. The caps greatly reduce water loss and spillage, making them closer to maintenance-free. I've had mine for 3 months and have yet to need to add any water. Normally batteries need water at least monthly. I expect to go 6 months or more between waterings.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Yes, it would. I'd have them under my bunk, but they are half an inch too tall to have room for all the hardware.

If you look at the link Chef posted, at Post #11 I listed the various sizes, which includes the Trojan line of L16s. If you get those, be sure to get Water Miser battery caps. The caps greatly reduce water loss and spillage, making them closer to maintenance-free. I've had mine for 3 months and have yet to need to add any water. Normally batteries need water at least monthly. I expect to go 6 months or more between waterings.


I like Trojan batteries. I will look into those. I am looking to replace my house batteries this summer. Hight is not a problem. Now, 2 or 4?

I am running a 110v fridge. It claims to draw a max of .09 amps at peak. It ran last night for 8 hours without the APU kicking in. I would like to extend that time as long as I can without getting silly.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I like Trojan batteries. I will look into those. I am looking to replace my house batteries this summer. Hight is not a problem. Now, 2 or 4?
4 is obviously better. Especially since you need to not go below 50% DoD. If you have two 6-volts wired to give 12-volts at 405 AH then you can only use 200 AH before you drop below 50%. You need four at 810 AH in order to use the entire 405 AH.

I am running a 110v fridge. It claims to draw a max of .09 amps at peak. It ran last night for 8 hours without the APU kicking in. I would like to extend that time as long as I can without getting silly.
Couple of things. OK, more than a couple. One, when does the APU kick in? At what voltage? In other words, are they kicking in when the battery bank gets down to 50%, or are they being drawn down much further than that?

You may need a battery monitor, like the Xantrex. You can set the "alarm" on the Xantrex to a specific "AH remaining" level and then wire it to have to APU fire up when the battery bank hits the alarm level.

Also, .09 amps at peak seems like a really low number for any 110v appliance, especially a fridge. A 25Watt light bulb draws .227 amps at 110 volts. 10 Watts is .09 amps. So .09 seems wrong for a fridge.

It's probably .9 amps, not .09. Most fridges, the smaller ones, anyway, are in the .8 to 1.5 amp range. At .9 amps, that's 100 Watts. My Microfridge draws 1.3 amps, according to the plate inside the door, and .8 when defrosting, but usually draws at most about .9 or 1.0 (around 10 or 12 amps out of the batteries at 12-volts).

Check the plate inside the door to be sure. You also might want to pick up a Kill-A-Watt meter. You plug it into an outlet, and then plug the fridge into the Kill-A Watt meter, and the meter will track how many Watts something uses over time. It's really great for something like a fridge which is sometimes on and sometimes off. It'll tell you exactly how many Watts are drawn out over an 8 or 24 hour period. The meter is lists for $30 and can be had for that price at Walmart and Radio Shack and Home Depot, but Sears has it for $18.50, and Newegg has it for $17. I think I paid $22 for mine at Camping World. Here's the Wikipedia page on it, and here's the Google Shopping page for it.

I used it in the van to check the actually Wattage draw of nearly everything in here. Did it several times over several time frames, to get a good idea of what draws what. It's nifty. It lets you know just how much money you're spending at home on those televisions and DVRs that suck electricity when they're turned off. My satellite receiver box draws nearly 5 amps from the batteries when turned off, so I got one of those remote extension cords so I can actually cut the power to the receive when I'm not watching television.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The APU is set to kick in at 12.2 volts. I have not checked it to see when it really does. It has seldom done so.

Maybe it was .9, I need new glasses.

I don't watch TV without running the APU. The fridge is the only big draw when sitting still.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
The APU is set to kick in at 12.2 volts. I have not checked it to see when it really does. It has seldom done so.
OK, kewl, 12.2 is good, which is 50% for most batteries. With Trojans 12.1 is 50%. I'd leave it at 12 .2 :)

I don't know how many amp hours you currently have or how everything is hooked up, but if your APU doesn't come on very often, your AH may be enough. Of course, the more the more better. Eventually you'll get to a weight consideration if you add too many batteries, tho. :D

Maybe it was .9, I need new glasses.
Easy mistake.

I don't watch TV without running the APU. The fridge is the only big draw when sitting still.
Yeah, the fridge is probably drawing about 10 amps from the batteries, maybe a less. I know mine when I'm asleep, my batteries end up being roughly 10 amps per hour with the satellite TV powered off and the TV turned off. I've got a few smaller things connected to the inverter, too, like the Espar (which draws very little) and a few other things, but overall it's about 10 amps per hour. I have 610 AH of batteries, which means I can use 305 before it gets down to 50%. Even watching a little TV, that still leaves me at more than 24 hours, which is what you really want, so you just match up how many amps you'll use in a 24 hour period (or whatever time frame you want between charging - off the grid folks use 5 days), and then double it, at least and there ya go.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Have you thought about going without hotel (house power) batteries? I don't know your truck but might you be able to set yours up like ours? We have no house batteries at all.

The truck came new from the factory with four batteries that powered everything electrical on the chassis. When the sleeper was added, the inverter was connected to the truck batteries. The generator is equipped with an auto-on feature that starts the generator and charges the batteries when the voltage declines to a certain point.

That setup provided enough power to run the sleeper most of the night before the generator kicked in. If we want to heat or cool the sleeper, the generator must be run.

We later upgraded to four Optima Yellow Top batteries and now use the generator less. With standard batteries, if we were laid over for a couple of days in mild weather (no heat or AC needed), the generator would usually kick in about 5:00 a.m. to charge the batteries. With the Optimas, the generator stays quiet all night long and well into the next day. They last longer and charge quicker, saving us many generator hours and gallons of generator fuel.

We bought them on sale at a Petro with a five-year warranty and are told we can get warranty coverage at any Petro or TA.
 
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layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
My truck is set up for 6 batteries. I have 4 starters and 2 house batteries. Everything is set up with isolators etc. I might as well stick with it.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
It's your call, of course, Joe. I was just thinking that an empty battery box might be the ideal place to store a couple of duck decoys.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
It's your call, of course, Joe. I was just thinking that an empty battery box might be the ideal place to store a couple of duck decoys.


LOL!!! That it would Phil. I just have NO use for decoys out on the road. I am not allowed to carry a shotgun, so I can't hunt so I guess I will leave the decoys at home. :(
 
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