About idling!! How to keep down the cost of idling

blizzard2014

Veteran Expediter
Driver
How many gallons an hour does a gasoline engine vs diesel engine burn if you choose to idle the truck for ac and heat in a cargo van?

Also, do any of you guys know about using an external generator with a portable 15000 btu portable air-conditioner/heater type arrangement in a cargo can?

I might get an external generator for my cargo van and use a portable heating/cookling unit to stay comfortable. Can any of you help me out.

If you do use an external generator, does it make a lot of noise at night, is it cheaper than idling the van?

Any guidence would be greatly appreciated!
 

terryandrene

Veteran Expediter
Safety & Compliance
US Coast Guard
RE: About idling!! How to keep down the cost of id

If you plan on using a cooking stove to stay comfortable, you'd better have a really good carbon monoxide detector or you'll not know discomfort for an eternity.

For starters, you might consider adding some good insulation to the walls and roof of your van. Invest about $50 for a catalytic heater with one pound propane bottles. Walmart or K-mart has them in the outdoors sections. That'll get you through this winter. For next year, schedule a visit with an Espar dealer and get one of their bunk warmer units.

For summertime comfort, a Fan-tastic van is quiet enough to let you sleep and will stir the air to help with the humidity. Add a second fan or dummy vent for air supply/exhaust. I've used these for many years and have been satisfied with them.
 

vipra

Expert Expediter
RE: About idling!! How to keep down the cost of id

I have an Espar Airtronic 2 heater and two Optima Yellow Top batteries to provide auxilliary power in my van, and I haven't idled once since I got them. Total cost is a little under $2K, but they'll pay for themselves in the fuel you won't waste idling and the wear that your engine won't get from idling. If you don't know how, van conversion shops and RV shops can install the Yellow Top batteries for you. Here are links:
http://www.espar.com/htm/Specs/airtronic2.htm
http://www.optimabatteries.com/publish/optima/americas0/en/config/product_info/commercial.html
 

kangar0085

Seasoned Expediter
RE: About idling!! How to keep down the cost of id

My van burns around .80 cents an hour on average depending on fuel cost during the idling while I sleep....gas engine.
 

kangar0085

Seasoned Expediter
RE: About idling!! How to keep down the cost of id

I also read in some truck paper that 2500 hours of idling equals 200k miles of driving on a tractor.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
RE: About idling!! How to keep down the cost of id

A van, or a truck, gas or diesel, will use just about a gallon per hour when idling, some slightly more, some slightly less. That's the way the engines are built. Some of the more fuel efficient ones will use perhaps .8 gallons per hour. A Sprinter will use only a third of a gallon per hour, but that's when idling at well below the minimum RPM that is necessary to keep the EGR valve clear. Idling at low speeds in a Sprinter will eventually cost you a lot more than the fuel cost of the higher idling speeds.

Generally, it's easier to use one gallon per hour when figuring you costs and consumption.

Take Terry's advice and do some quick-fix things to get you through the rest of the winter. Insulate the van, and do it up good. Any extra time and added expense to properly insulate it now will pay back tenfold every day later. I don't mean pay a professional a grand or two to insulate it, but I do mean it should be well insulated, no gaps, and not just some stuff slapped up here and there to cover all the obvious spots. The silver reflective bubble pack insulation that Lowes carries works well (and seal each and every seam with the silver foil tape they also carry), as does the styrofoam panels. In conjunction with the foam in a can, the bubble pack and panels all work great in conjunction with each other. Some people have had professionals spray that foam insulation inside the van, and that works well, too.

Invest in some good heat shields for the windshield and the side windows. Not the el cheapo stuff from auto parts stores. They work, sort of, but if you have every used a high end thermal shield, you'll know how badly the cheap ones work. For my Sprinter I got the reflectors that are made for the Sprinter, Themo-Mat Isoflex 7-layered high tech material that looks like something that was stolen from NASA. I wish I had known about this stuff before I insulated the van, otherwise I'd have used it to do the whole thing. It's made by an Italian company, Micro and Alex Magnani
(http://www.mircomagnani.it/inglese/home2.html)
and I have no idea where it's sold here in North America, except that you can order it from
http://secure.mycart.net/catalogs/catalog.asp?prodid=4757859&showprevnext=1
Don't know if they have the ones designed for other vans like Ford, Chevy, Dodge or not, but they might be able to order it. In any case, they have a do-it yourself kit that you can cut to specs.

www.canvasworks.com has something very similar, and priced about the same. Easier to get, that's fer sure.

The difference between the cheap stuff and the high end stuff? The cheap stuff insulates to approximately 25%, and the high end stuff insulates to 100%. With the high end stuff, you can wake up after all nice and toasty, it's 15 degrees outside, and you take down the window insulation and there is frost on the inside of the windows. :)

You can set that stuff 8 inches in front of an electric heater for hours, and the back of the insulating panel will be cold. No more cold drafts around the windows with this stuff.

As for power, you have the option of a generator or deep cycle batteries. For a generator, you are faced with several options. One is, do you want a gas or diesel generator, or one with propane? Propane is generally going to not be an option for expediting because it limits where you can go, as most tunnels and many bridges will not allow a vehicle with propane tanks on board.

A diesel generator will burn less fuel than a gas generator will, and are much easier to maintain. But they cost considerably more, as well.

If you want a permanently installed generator, you're going to want one that uses the same fuel as your van. If you go portable then it might not matter as much. Honda makes a very quiet portable gasoline generator that works very well. Under a full load, like an electric heater or a rooftop air conditioner, it burns too much fuel if ya ask me, but it's still less than idling will burn. If you use a portable generator, you have to make sure you can store it and a couple of skids together, and probably that you can get to it while loaded with a couple of skids, in case you need it for a long trip or have a weekend layover while loaded.

A permanently installed generator is the best option for most vans, all things considered. You don't have to worry about setting it outside, and chaining it up so that someone doesn't steal it (not that a chain will stop anyone who really wants it) and you don't have to deal with the weather aspects of having to get out in the rain to bring it in when you have to move. I recently saw one guy roll on a load, and forgot to bring his generator in with him. He drug it all the way across the parking lot before someone got his attention.

For heat, an Espar heater wins, hands down. With a generator, however you can use a small ceramic heater and be fine. Still, that generator burns a lot of money in fuel, between .4 and .6 gallons per hour. An Espar will go though about a gallon every 12-15 hours, depending on how cold it is and how well insulated the van is. Don't even think about running an electric heater off of batteries. You can't carry enough batteries for that. Well, you could, but carrying freight would be out of the question.

For cooling, a Fan-Tastic fan vent works wonders. Blows in or out, 3 speeds, rain sensor that closes it up when it gets wet and opens it back up when it stops raining. At Terry said, a second fan or a dummy vent is great for airflow. You can crack a window and get plenty of air in, as well, but you also let bugs and <gulp> wasps in with it. Bugs can be a problem at night, when you're parking in a well-lit parking lot, cause the parking lot lights attract all the bugs, then the light coming through the cracked window just invites them on into the van.

If the van is well insulated, especially with high end window coverings, a Fan-Tastic vent will keep you relatively cool even while the van is baking in the parking lot sun during the day, when most expediters are sleeping. Much above 80 degrees, though, and you need an air conditioner. You can idle, of course, but you want to avoid that. Not only are you burning fuel, but within an hour or so you have the heat from the engine and exhaust coming up through the floor of the van dramatically reducing the effectiveness of the AC.

Better is to get a rooftop air conditioner and run it off the generator. Many rooftop air conditioners come with a heat strip that lets you use the AC as a heater. Do not think that this heat strip can take the place of an actual heater and will keep you warm. It won't. It'll take the chill out of a 50 degree night, but that's about it.

In my case, I'm in a Sprinter, and generator options for Sprinters used in expediting are severely limited. So much so that I have traded the weight and expense (and maintenance) of a generator and a standard RV rooftop air conditioner, for that of some high end deep cycle batteries and a DC air conditioner. I use an Espar for heat.

Whatever you do, keep in mind that you will get what you pay for. If you spend a lot of time in your van, like if you are out for weeks or months at a time, you're gong to want to make it as comfortable and as hassle-free as possible. You have to balance how much you want to spend with how many hassles you want and how comfortable you want to be.

I want no hassles and total comfort. :)

I don't wear 2 pair of socks, long johns, 3 sweatshirts and a space suit to bed, or sleep in an arctic sleeping bag with my face buried under the covers so I can breath my own carbon dioxide all night. My nose isn't exposed to the possibility of frostbite at night. The only thing I wear to be is the aftershave I put on the last time I shaved, and I usually sleep on top of the sleeping bag instead of inside it. I don't have to get up in the middle of the night to change out propane bottles, or go to the store and buy them. I don't have to get up and get dressed and go out and fill the generator tank with gas when I'd rather be sleeping or playing on the computer or watching TV.

Good luck.
 
Top