A Way To Help Get Repeat Drunk Drivers Off the Road

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Excerpt from my December 12, 2009 blog.

You know the story. We have all heard it. A drunk driver causes a fatal traffic accident and it comes out that the driver has been convicted several times before for drunk driving.

People talk about it at work or coffee or worship. We wonder why someone like that is permitted to drive at all. Why can't he or she just get sober? Why don't they lock that person up and throw away the key? It's terrible that innocent people were killed by the drunk. We feel bad for their families. We talk about how sad it all is for the victims and how wrong it is that the offender was driving drunk again.

The conversation ends. We go on with our business. A few weeks pass and we have the same conversation again when the story is again in the news, this time with a different repeat offender and a new set of victims....

Diane and I are home for Christmas and using some of the time to visit with old friends. One of them is a criminal court judge who told us about an amazingly successful approach to repeat DWI (DUI) offenders.

Once they are in the program, repeat drunk drivers are not re-offending. They are no longer driving drunk. They are getting sober, staying sober, turning their lives around and no longer putting innocent lives at risk. Some fall off the wagon and drink again but none have been charged with another drunk driving offense.

The next time you find yourself in an ain't-it-awful conversation about repeat drunk drivers, you will not be at a loss to offer up a solution. Tell the people you are talking to about Judge John Holahan's DWI Court in Hennepin County Minnesota, and other such courts that have surfaced around the country.

Tell people that it doesn't have to be awful about repeat offender drunk drivers. A real solution really exists that can take repeat drunk drivers off the road by helping them get sober and turn their lives around.

These people were punished when they were convicted and sentenced for their first drunk driving offense. They were punished again when they were convicted and sentenced for their second, third, fourth and more offenses. Each time the punishment was more severe. Each time they offended again. Punishing a repeat drunk driver yet again for yet another offense might satisfy some people's notion of justice but it will not get to the root of the problem or improve highway safety.

That is not to say that the judge is a softy. As a criminal court judge he has sentenced numerous people to hard time. In lieu of going to jail, people under DWI Court supervision are required to do community service and allow the police to enter their homes and look around anytime the police want. Breathalyzer tests are given frequently to verify sobriety. Participation in AA meetings is mandatory as are frequent appearances back in court. Those are some of the many requirements the closely-supervised offenders must agree to before entering the program.

I invite you to do something that is easy and could help make a real difference in your community. Find out if your county is running a DWI (DUI) court. If not, find out who the chief judge and county prosecutor are, and send this Star Tribune article to them with the suggestion that they look into it. Additional program details are in this piece written by Judge Holahan for The Hennepin Lawyer. If you want to point people to my blog entry, you can use this permalink.

Your county court judges and prosecutors may have already heard of DWI court, but they busy people who hear about all kinds of things. A note from you, a concerned citizen, may be just the thing to bring this life saving idea to the front of their minds and prompt them to act.

Diane and I don't want to be in an accident with a drunk driver. Neither do you. Send the note, save some lives.
 

Dabus1952

Seasoned Expediter
Hello Phil
I whole heartly agree with your posting. I being your neightbor to the east. (Se Wi. kenosha county) Read in our paper daily, or see it on the news.Where as the same folks go out and Repeat Drunk driving.I always felt we in Wisconsin are to soft on DUI . We slap them with a fine .Tell them dont do it again and on there way they go.Maybe after the 3rd offence they loose the Privilege of there Dr. Lic. Then apply for a hardship Lic. Or drive with out Lic. I know first hand what a drunk driver can do, when I was a teenager my 16 year cousin was struck by a drunk driver and killed.To this day 39 years later he or she never was caught nor brought to justice.There had been reports to the police of the Auto invloved as being all over road etc. They never had a chance to get him in time for my cousins sake. Wishing you and Diane a very happy holiday and a safe one. Also the offer still stands when your in my area meeting you for a cup of coffee. You can Pm me for a cell # if and when you are here and have time to kill in Pleasant Prairie or Kenosha. Kevin D.
 

Bruno

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
US Marines
No Phil you don't. One of our truck was hit by a drunk driver a few years back and it wasn't a pretty thing to see. The drunk driver sadly lost his life, our drivers tried to help him but he bleed out. It was a night I will never forget and neither will our drivers.
 

copdsux

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
As a sober member,of AA, for a little over 23 years, I believe that how the Big Book describes how we get new members is the best way: "Attraction, rather than promotion". My experience tells me that individuals referred by the courts resent the hell out of it, and have a really difficult time grasping the program.

Mike
 

Dakota

Veteran Expediter
We just had a repeat offender run into a Mother and Daughter, the Mother was killed, daughter was injured. The drunk driver was okay. This happened on a rural road I travel on a lot near my house, and even was on it the day of the accident , one hour before the accident!!!
Very Sad!!!! He shouldn't have had a license at this point and he shouldn't have been driving.:confused:
 

Jack_Berry

Moderator Emeritus
like dabus says....wisc loves the soft penalty. soft judges have been letting these goys back out. why should anyone get an 11th or 13th chance? why are underage people allowed to deliver drinks? who passed the law to allow that?

the game is played out in ill also. i worked for a guy who had three dui. each time the fine got stiffer and stiffer. he was still drinking.

until judges all take a stand the repeaters will continue. too bad sheriff joe is only in ariz. he should franchise that got-a-pair determination.
 

Bruno

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
US Marines
Being from Akron, Ohio where AA was started by Dr. Bob. The 12 step program has helped alot of people over the years. I would go sit in meetings with my step father to help him stay sober. I would hear people speak on what they did before they quit drinking, man AA is a good step for some people.
 

moose

Veteran Expediter
well , it just happened to be that Wisc. DUI laws where on the news today :

Lawmakers to Pass DUI Laws

MADISON, Wis. (AP) -- The Wisconsin Legislature is expected to pass a bill Wednesday toughening the state's drunken driving law.

The bill would make the first offense a fine if someone under age 16 is in the car. Wisconsin is currently the only state where first offenses are treated like a traffic infraction and not a crime.

The bill also would make the fourth offense a felony if it occurs within five years of a previous offense. It also requires ignition interlock devices for all repeat offenders and for first-time offenders who have a blood alcohol level of more than .15 percent.

Similar bills passed unanimously this fall but there was a disagreement over how to pay for it. Under the bill to be debated, offenders would pay for the expected costs through higher fees.

(Copyright 2009 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

Lawmakers to Pass DUI Laws | Today's TMJ4 - Milwaukee, Wisconsin News, Weather, Sports, WTMJ | Local News

This is a good joke .
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
There is not much of a drunk driving problem in Japan. The sentence there for a first offense is one year in prison. I don't know about now, but back in '71-'72 when I was stationed there, you were feed mostly fish heads and rice unless your family brought you other food. There were just not that many repeat offenders there. In England, when I was stationed there '76-81, the first offense bought you a one year suspension of your drivers license. There was a bigger drunk driving problem there than in Japan but not nearly as big as what we have.
 

Poorboy

Expert Expediter
When I was On the Job, I had Scraped Up Too Many Innocent People Killed by Drunk Drivers! In the Warmer weather the Motorcycle D.U.Is Increased Quite a Bit and Usually Scraped Some of them Off the Pavement Too! Back then the Penalty was Up to $1000.00 Fine and or 6 Months in Jail, But the Judges Never Gave them the Maximum, Was Usually 3 Days in Jail and $250.00 Fine!They Never did the Whole 3-Days--They would check into the Jail on a Friday Night Before 2300 Hrs. and Were Released on Sunday Afternoon/Evening. Never could Understand their Calculations on How 2 days Came out to 3!! Then the Brains in Ohio Decided that the Penalty wasn't Strong Enough so they Added Forfeiture of the Vehicle in the Mix, But they got around that by Using their Wife's, Mothers, Fathers, or Friends Cars or Trucks so the Vehicles couldn't be Forfeited Because all the Owners had to say is that they didn't know he/she was Going to drink while they Loaned him/her their car! I Don't know if they ever Changed that Law or Not, But I'm Thinking that the Price of a Human Life is well worth Stiffer Penalties than what they Have/Had Back then!!
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Mrs. Layoutshooter and I both had to "scrape up" a few drunks when we were EMT's. We somehow managed to bring in a few that lived as well.
 

Jack_Berry

Moderator Emeritus
joe, in this country license suspension is just driving with no license. the state would need to impound the car for a year.

here is my proposal:
first offense is 6 mo in jail and aa treatment program.
2nd is 1 year (and i like the fish heads and rice unless supplied other food. sheriff joe likes that kind of program also) and a boot camp experience.
third offense is 5 years in jail and never driving again. after that it is just mandatory jail. if it is too hard on your family maybe they need to let you go. this hardship license crap has got to go. you already are a hardship on society. course this is IF there are no fatalities in n accident otherwise your are in the penalty box permanently.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
joe, in this country license suspension is just driving with no license. the state would need to impound the car for a year.

here is my proposal:
first offense is 6 mo in jail and aa treatment program.
2nd is 1 year (and i like the fish heads and rice unless supplied other food. sheriff joe likes that kind of program also) and a boot camp experience.
third offense is 5 years in jail and never driving again. after that it is just mandatory jail. if it is too hard on your family maybe they need to let you go. this hardship license crap has got to go. you already are a hardship on society. course this is IF there are no fatalities in n accident otherwise your are in the penalty box permanently.

Sounds Okee Dokee to me!! Hit 'em HARD. There is just no valid excuse for this. I think that we should be able to sue a judge who gives a DD a chance and then the DD goes out and hurts/kills or does damage. After all, the Government has assumed the responsibilty for public safety, they should live up that!! Same goes if a repeat criminal breaks into my house, does harm to a family member etc. We must quit excusing crime. Otherwise, the crime rate will never go down.
 

Dabus1952

Seasoned Expediter
Hello Jack
I agree As you know here in Wi. with our liberal laws concerning Drinking and Driving,Or taking your teenager with you to drink in a bar.They fine them or take away there Driver Lic. This dont stop them at all. Your Right bring in Sheriff Joe and boot camp and feed them on 99 cents a day . House them in Pink jump suites.Sleep in tents Seeing how it gets cold here .We will be compasionate and let them have used Military sleeping bags. There will be know TV , libraires to study in so they can sue the goverment.Then when its all done and said they will go out and clean roadways for there probation.Wow Jack that sure sounds good to me. Also this holiday season be safe and keep our roadways safe by dialing the state police and reporting all impaired drivers. You may be a hero who helps save someones life. Happy holidays to all.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
First offense 6 months in jail? AA treatment?

Nope not good enough.

First offense - loss of license for life, confiscate vehicle and ban them from owning any vehicle.

Second offense - confiscate vehicle they are driving and 1 year in jail - no parole.

Third offense - confiscate vehicle they are driving and 5 years in jail - no parole

To lessen the cost to put the person through the system sell vehicle(s) at market price. An alternative would be to make a deal with Mexico to have those serve jail time there at $4 a day.
 

Scuba

Veteran Expediter
No Phil you don't. One of our truck was hit by a drunk driver a few years back and it wasn't a pretty thing to see. The drunk driver sadly lost his life, our drivers tried to help him but he bleed out. It was a night I will never forget and neither will our drivers.

I don't understand the sadly part its always a good thing in my book when the driunk driver gets killed because that means he cant hurt or kill anyone else ever again. No loss of sleep over a drunk for me. I have tailed several over the years while on the phone with the cops to get them off of the road and to tell you the truth if one of them crash and dont hit anyhone i would leave them on the side of the road like the trash they are.
 
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ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Sharing this private reply recently received. Among other things, it shows the wide reach of ExpeditersOnline.com and this Open Forum.

[FONT=&quot]Mr. Madsen,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I just read your article on Expediters Online.com – A way to Help Get Repeat Drunk Drivers Off the Road - with great interest. My name is David Wallace and I am the director for the National Center for DWI Courts. The Center is set up to raise the public awareness of DWI Courts, train courts on how to do this important work, and increase the number of courts across the country.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I’m glad you got to hear a bit about these powerful courts, and if you ever get the opportunity, I would also recommend a graduation where many times graduates talk about where they were at, and where they are at now – and the significant changes they had to go through to get to that point. I’ve even seen where the graduates thank the officers that arrested them for saving their lives.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]In reading some of the comments by your members, one of the things they may not understand is that for the repeat DWI offender they are usually dependent on alcohol – and just putting them in jail will not change that dependence – they will get out and still drink and still drive – obviously even without a license. Even increasing the jail sentence is not a deterrent for them. It is hard for us to understand, but the craving to drink is stronger than any fear of jail or prison. They need to have that craving changed or learn how to control it. DWI courts as you are learning are designed to change the person’s behavior using intensive supervision and treatment with sanctions and incentives when necessary.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Please understand, I have no problems seeing someone go to jail when appropriate – I was a prosecutor for 23 years before this job and I prosecuted hundreds of drunk drives as well as numerous fatalities involving impaired drivers. Some people do deserve to serve some time – especially when they hurt or kill someone – but drivers that haven’t done that are ones we should work with and get them to change their behavior. AA or a similar support program is only one component – the treatment is intensive as is the supervision, as you know. And if there is a violation of the court’s order, then there is a consequence.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]If you would like to find out more about these courts, or have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me – or you can check out our website at www.dwicourts.org. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Again, thank you for your great message. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Building a Safer Community,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]David Wallace[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Director - National Center for DWI Courts[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]A Professional Services Branch of NADCP[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4900 Seminary Road, Suite 320[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Alexandria[/FONT][FONT=&quot], Virginia 22311[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](703) 575-9400 ext. 32 work[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](703) 201-4721 Cell[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]www.AllRise.org[/FONT]
 

highway star

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Some people do deserve to serve some time – especially when they hurt or kill someone – but drivers that haven’t done that are ones we should work with and get them to change their behavior.

What a load of crap. Because a drunk has been lucky enough not to hurt someone, they're better? It's one thing to have a craving, it's another to indulge it then choose to get behind the wheel. If a guy shoots at someone and misses, that's attempted murder. If a guy with a .22 BAC gets behind the wheel and manages to make it home safely...

I suppose some would think this guy's opinion has some value because he has a title. A title can give the impression that someone has some sense. Sounds like a heart that's bleeding just a bit to much.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I agree highway, this is BS and shows that they have a right to drive over the safety of the public.

If they can't kick a habit while spending a short jail sentence, but can after a program, then to me the incarceration program is failing to be a punishment and deterrent to further bad behavior and needs to be reviewed. Maybe losing the car and license the first time should be the first step with no means to getting it back.

I feel that hard time jail like the Arizona sheriff would be a lot better for society than some program that doesn't impart a tangible punishment for bad behavior.
 
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