A Question for Cops

[ATeam]

I know there are scale cops and other law enforcement types that read this forum. For you, I have a question. Private replies are welcome and will be kept confidential if you wish.

With CSA 2010 soon to assign individual safety ratings to each and every truck driver, and with a new kind of point system soon to come on line, law enforcement officers will gain significant new powers to affect a trucker's career, both positively and negatively.

This is a huge new topic about which truckers know little about. In my October 20 blog entry, I share details and wonder aloud how cops might respond. Your comments are requested. Thank you in advance for your replies.

 

[davekc]

I am just in the infancy of trying to figure it all out and how states will comply. Probably turn into another cash grab for some states. But I see it as a double edge sword. Drivers will have to be more aggressive in combating any infractions because that safety rating will affect employment all the way to insurance premiums.
On the other side, it could be a silver lining for driver wages to increase as "good" drivers will become a valued commodity when the poor performing ones are left in the cold.
It will be interesting if they exempt government and Mexican drivers?
BTW...........it is a good question with many more questions.
My penny in the pond with limited information.

 

[greg334]

Dave,
Right now who rewards drivers for a good driving record?

I don't expect higher pay for most of the drivers working at compaines or contracted to companies but an attitude that the company can control more through this system because it is not all about inspections by outside entities but this new system also depends on the company being honest and that may be where the problem will be with any driver.

The system is flawed, when you really dig deep into the CSA and look at the actual definitions of the driver violations, the weight put on them and the reference to the regs, some of the weights seem to be unrealistic and with no room for an explanation of circumstances - in other words one size will be forced to fit all. For example a burned out turn signal light gets you 6 weighted points but having improper Hazmat documentation gets you 2. So safety is the issue? If you are carrying a class 1 explosive but have the paper work for a class 9 material, and you have an accident where the truck explodes and kill a lot of people, but get 2 points for that, doesn't it seem a bit off the mark if we are talking about safety? I went through the entire list and it seemed that it was written by someone who has no clue about the real world.

The other thing is the driver's fatigue issue, with any luck this system will be revised to cover a more extensive field determination of medical issues outside of the short form, mainly DOT enforcement taking on the priveledge in determining the wakefullness of any driver who they are inspecting. They will in effect start determining medical conditions without being a doctor. Already I am hearing rumblings of Wakefulness Test being used for people over the BMI that the DOT could determine we all stay under. It would not surprise me that at that point an age limit would be put in place but it all still doesn't answer why are they messing with all of this when tightening up on training will lower the crash rates significantly more than reporting and then correcting problems.

The last thing I think this may end up doing is bringing in all commercial vehicles into the fold, meaning vans too.

 

[davekc]

That is why I think it has the makings of a cash grab. State writes a violation for the turn signal infraction, and off you go to the county court to pay big bucks to get the infraction points removed. Enough cash on the table will make those points disappear.
Not seeing it as any benefit for safety based on that point system. Easier revenue collecting. Why waste dollars running the road looking for speeders when you can collect the same or more revenue in one location.

 

[greg334]

But See dave I think you are missing something. The reporting system is not about infractions but it is about corrective actions as a preemptive strike.

For example the CE MSP officer pulled me over for a light out on my box, granted it wasn't out when I did my pretrip but because I slammed into a Volkswagen size pothole, it went out. So I get the equipment violation and then that gets reported back to the CSA2010 Safety Measurement System which is now 6 points on my commerical driving record in one of the Behavioral Analysis and Safety Improvement Categories. So another state, say Ohio, pulls me over for the same thing seeing I am under a load and can't get it repaired. They also issue me an violation and again I am hit with 6 points. So at the end of the year, my company reviews my driving record through the CSA2010 and sees I have 12 points and that affects their rating so they decide to terminate my contract.

There is no option to rectify the situation, the assumption is that I am at fault for a problems that could be avoided, a burned out light.

The Feds are using this under the excuse that it may reduce crashed and fatalities but when you look at the stats, not the filtered or weighted stats but the raw data, training seems to be one of the biggest preventers and it is something that I feel should be changed before any new system some into play.

 

[davekc]

I see a stampede of lawsuits the minute someone is terminated using that criteria and thee isn't a vehicle for correction. Or maybe there is? Maybe driver training courses? Of course, for a fee.
I really need to get more educated on the ins and outs of this.

 

[greg334]

Part of this has to do with intervention and prevention, but it seems like the prevention is after the fact because when you think about it a lot of drivers who work hard staying clean and operate within the law may also be the worst things out on the road and it is that word LUCK that has kept them from getting into a 'crash'. They don't even show up on the CSA radar but may be that new driver who has now a year on the road but still can barely park his rig and lacks the training needed to actually drive.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Since Greg wants to involve me into this fray I can step in here....

I can see some minor infractions should have expiry dates especially in Gregs example of the blown light..If'n he was 25 years old..it is not right those 12 points stay on your record for the next 40 years!

 

[greg334]

I will continue to do so until I get my roast.

 

[Crazynuff]

Phil , you could have 20 cops answer and get 20 interpretations of the regulations and that is where there has always been a problem . I have seen former LEO's on forums give such ridiculous answers regarding FMCSA regulations it is easy to see why they are FORMER LEO's . But many of their replacements aren't much better .

 

[Streakn1]

In reading Phil's Oct. 23rd, 2009 I noted that he refers to the T/T unit parked next to him as a "DR unit" rather than an ER unit as we were known as when we were leased to FECC. Since he refers to this T/T and others like it twice in his blog as being DR Units, it has me wondering has FECC changed the designation of these units?

Ooops, in reading further into this blog entry the T/T Unit is referred to as an ER Unit. So is it a DR or ER?

 

[nightcreacher]

In reading Phil's Oct. 23rd, 2009 I noted that he refers to the T/T unit parked next to him as a "DR unit" rather than an ER unit as we were known as when we were leased to FECC. Since he refers to this T/T and others like it twice in his blog as being DR Units, it has me wondering has FECC changed the designation of these units?

Ooops, in reading further into this blog entry the T/T Unit is referred to as an ER Unit. So is it a DR or ER?

im sure it was a slip of the finger as a D and the E are close together on keyboard.20 ft straight trucks are still D's,tractor trailers are E's as you know

 

[Streakn1]

Phil , you could have 20 cops answer and get 20 interpretations of the regulations and that is where there has always been a problem .

Bottom line is this, no matter what response a current or former LEO provides on this subject, is it going to be the same intepretation as the next officer? The interpretation that counts is the one thats standing in front of you with ticket book in hand. If you disagree with his/her interpretation, thats what the court system is for. God only knows these officers have a LOT of laws to enforce.

 

[Streakn1]

im sure it was a slip of the finger as a D and the E are close together on keyboard.20 ft straight trucks are still D's,tractor trailers are E's as you know

I thought so, just making sure! LOL