A newbie inquires

[troma]

Hello all,
1st, I thank all of you or providing me with many hours of reading over the past week, which happens to work well with my insomnia! Finding it helpful and informative.
Im going to attempt to get to my point with as little needless rambling as possible.

In the investigating phase of possibly making an attempt at expedite as a livelihood.
No wife, no kids, no rent/mortgage, but more important than any of that, is no experience, either! Been on an extended fishing trip for the last few years, and now need to start bringing home an income, again. Having no college, skilled trade, or any other (marketable) credentials, seems like this could be an honest way to make a living, while maintaining a sense of freedom. FWIW, I live in the chicago area.

In my mind, I see a sprinter van as the way Id like to go. I HAVE seen many of the posts, suggesting a straight truck is a better option, but in all honesty, its more liability/responsibility than Id prefer to have. This would also have to be my personal vehicle(for a while, at least), so, I cant really see myself running to 7/11, or driving in downtown Chicago in a straight truck for my personal use. I felt very fortunate to have read the blog "4wheeling", and can see the logic in many of the sentiments expressed. In keeping with some of the advice from said blog, my 1st(of many, Im sure) is this:
Approximately how much $$$ is realistic to anticipate spending on a used vehicle for the above purposes? The only way I can see this as a viable venture, is to not have to deal with vehicle payments for the 1st year or 3. Inline with that, what do I need as far as a sprinter goes, that:
1. will give me 2 years of service, without the expectation of having to totally re-build it? I.E. I wouldnt think it practical to start out with an 8 yr old van w/600,000 miles, and expect that I will get 2yrs without major work needed.I am aware, that there are no guarantees or certainties, but, whats realistic? Would a 4yr old van/200,000k be realistic to get 2yrs from before replacing engine/trans?
2. Would there be any reason NOT to get a 170wb with high-roof? Is there a consensus among carriers as far as vehicle age goes. Can i get signed on with an 08 van, or do I need newer?

That is all I am going to ask for now, but, Im sure as I investigate further, I will have many more ?s for you people that have been at this awhile.
Any/all feedback is welcomed & appreciated.
thanks

 

[jimlookup]

I'm feeling a little long winded tonight so I'll try to answer your questions as I see the answers. Many will see the answers differently. Where were you fishing at for three years? Off Navy Pier, Monroe St Harbor, or maybe the rocks at Montrose?
Your questions all seem to apply to your choice of vehicle. First off, I agree with your choice of purchasing a van. There's just not enough money in a CV (sprinter) to split with a carrier and a owner.
At this time most carriers won't except a standard cargo van so you would have to go sprinter or sprinter type van. The more capacity, the better. Also, with no experience you have a pretty high barrier with the more desirable carriers, and they will probably want a veichle 6 years old or newer.
That said, there are some companys that will accept less experience and older vans. They will probably pay less and may go bankrupt owing you a couple thousand $'s. But, you didn't expect to start at the top any way.
When you buy a used van the most important consideration is; how well has it been taken care of. Repairs are very expensive, especially on a Sprinter. I would not want to start my career in a van with 600,000 miles on it no matter how well it was maintained. 200,000 would work but you are talking big bucks for a sprinter with that milage. When considering your entry point remember most new CV expediters don't last, and this could mean you.
In your position I would consider a 12' 3/4 ton Penske van. You know the van has been maintained and you satisfy the age and capacity requirements for most carriers.
Best of luck from a ex Chicagoian now Hoosier.

 

[troma]

jimlookup, thank you so much for taking the time. Its much appreciated!

Where were you fishing at for three years? Off Navy Pier, Monroe St Harbor, or maybe the rocks at Montrose?

Well, to answer that 1 in any detail would take a few pages. In addition to all the places you mentioned(with the exception of the rocks at montrose, reason being they havent been there for about 10 yrs or so. The whole stretch from the jetties to the horseshoe has been paved! But yes, I do spend a lot of days in June chasing perch around montrose harbor) my fishing travels have had me spending a lot of time on the west shoreline of lake michigan from chicago up to the door county peninsula. March/April/May is Coho time from Chi to waukegan, May/June is perch fishing in the city, July finds me chasing giant brown trout in the Kenosha/Racine/Milwaukee. Mid-august thru october is time to chase Kings in the WI harbors. In addition to the great lakes thing, I usually spend a week or 3 in august wading the rivers in northeast WI/U.P. of MI chasing smallmouth and walleye. I have been fortunate to have had the opportunity to spend a great deal of time in south florida and the keys chasing peacock&Largemouth bass, tarpon, sailfish, tuna, king macks, cobia and many others in & offshore on the atlantic side of FLA. A healthy dose of late fall/early spring walleye fishing the rivers in WI, a few trips to the ozarks for bass/striper fishing. Yes...I have a problem

The more capacity, the better. Also, with no experience you have a pretty high barrier with the more desirable carriers, and they will probably want a veichle 6 years old or newer. That said, there are some companys that will accept less experience and older vans. They will probably pay less and may go bankrupt owing you a couple thousand $'s. But, you didn't expect to start at the top any way.

Excellent info! Exactly what I was looking for, thanks!

When considering your entry point remember most new CV expediters don't last, and this could mean you.

Point taken... While this sounds less than encouraging, it also sounds very realistic. I also feel this is true of just about every other job I have ever had. Difference here is the level of investment to get started in comparison to anything else I ever had to do.

In your position I would consider a 12' 3/4 ton Penske van. You know the van has been maintained and you satisfy the age and capacity requirements for most carriers.

Seeing as how you are not the 1st to tell me a standard cargo van would be a better option, let me ask you this: If the ability exists to start out with a payment-free, used sprinter(1 with 150-250K miles,4-6yrs old, in the 18-24k$ range), 6months insurance premium paid up front, a few months of operating-expense(save for MAJOR unexpected repairs, i.e. engine/trans replacement), and not much else, is the price-premium over the same scenario with a cheaper gm/ford cargo van justifiable? In other words, would the $$$ spent up front for the pricier sprinter be more likely/unlikely to pay for itself over the 1st 2 yrs of service in terms of load-capability, fuel savings, or would the higher purchase & repair/maintenance costs of the sprinter offset any potential efficiency savings/increased income from higher load capability?

again, thank you for your input.

 

[Moot]

Somethings to ask yourself before buying any van or Sprinter:

What if the income isn't what I expected. Can I unload this van or Sprinter without taking a significant financial hit?

What if the lifestyle isn't what I expected. Can I unload this van or Sprinter without taking a significant financial hit?

 

[troma]

Somethings to ask yourself before buying any van or Sprinter:
What if the income isn't what I expected. Can I unload this van or Sprinter without taking a significant financial hit?
What if the lifestyle isn't what I expected. Can I unload this van or Sprinter without taking a significant financial hit?

Fair questions, indeed. I suspect the answer in both cases would have to be no. Id be inclined to believe that if for any reason it didnt work out, I DO believe I would take a hit getting out of any vehicle. Although, from my limited research, I am a bit amazed at what people will pay for a well-used sprinter in any condition. I just figure it as an associated risk, and, as with anything in life there is a price to pay for wrong decisions. Hopefully after paying the penalty you live to fight another day.
In my mind, Im looking at this as a 2yr plan. If after 2 years it is proving to be a financially viable and personally tolerable existence, then due to my generally modest standard of living(except when it comes to high-end fishing tackle, of course) lack of debt, manageable personal bills(my biggest annual expense is my health-insurance that in my 13yrs of ever-increasing premium payments I have yet to use), I should have enough $ saved to either:
1. Have a new replacement expedite-capable vehicle nearly paid for in full, and be able to continue, or:
2. Call it a love story & pursue my next idea at making a living, which just so happens to include a sprinter van.

So, I kind of figure that even if it doesnt work out, I could still keep the van as my ride, and use it for another business angle I hope to try down the line. Not to mention, Im not so sure a sprinter wouldnt make the ultimate road trip/fishing trip vehicle

Thanks moot, appreciate your insight!

 

[ebsprintin]

i just wrote a speel, but my response disappear into the void. i'll respond later when i can use something besides the phone app.

eb

 

[rymilburn]

I went from driving a straight for almost a year... To being a o/o in a sprinter. You can learn a lot from my mistakes.

Driving a straight= made a killing & then some.

Being an o/o in a sprinter= being poor. I'm not kidding.

One can only live in a sprinter or cargo van for so long. Sprinter 's are much more desirable to live in, because
You can stand up & more room.

I bought mine here on EO from some A-hole in NY....$25k financed.... 2011 with 160k in miles. Set up beautifully for OTR. Had it inspected by a professional/ third party....long story short .... Brought it home... Took it for DOT inspection... Failed. $2,500 later in repairs. & not to mention oil changes and routine maintenance will break the bank .

I am still signed on with my carrier/.. But I stay close to home out west ... Some weeks I will be lucky to see 500 loaded miles. Point is...it's not guaranteed income...

I have a local gig in addition to my carrier now, delivering delayed/lost Bag's from the airlines here in Vegas... Pay 's somewhat decent.

Bottom line.... My payment on my sprinter is $700 a month ... Not including registration... Insurance ... Carrier fee's... Etc. do your math first...



For those that feel sorry for me.... And many shouldn't. I have 4 other sources of income and plan to pay the van off in 3 months. I just wanted to share my story in hopes that newbies or future newbies are smart about it unlike I was.

-Ryan

 

[rymilburn]

Just wanted to add....

Imagine sitting in a cargo can for 3 days straight without a load. ( it will happen)

Now imagine sitting in a sprinter for 3 days without a load....

They both suck. Seriously consider your options.

 

[Doggie Daddy]

..troma if you do decide to do the expediting thing, does this mean you won't be back with the Cowboys this year?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using EO Forums mobile app

 

[Turtle]

Just to clarify a couple of things... most carriers will, in fact, take on cargo vans. Only a handful are Sprinter-only and will not take a cargo van.

Any new endeavor, including and maybe especially expediting, has a steep learning curve. I would not recommend a Sprinter as an entry vehicle into expediting, because it has a rather steep learning curve all on it's own.

Read this, as there are a few nuggets which might apply to you. Then read everything at the following links:

http://www.expeditersonline.com/for...008-ebsprintin-signature-line.html#post603043

Tin Can; Consolidated

 

[troma]

..troma if you do decide to do the expediting thing, does this mean you won't be back with the Cowboys this year?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using EO Forums mobile app

 

[ebsprintin]

Thanks, Turtle.

Couple other things. Many of the companies that you want to eventually end up at have waiting lists or require expediting experience. During that time of gaining experience, it really can't hurt to start with a non-sprinter-type van. More emphasis should be placed on cash reserves than comfort or tricky technology (sprinter van). You can't spend comfort in a bind, but leftover cash reserves can buy, outright, the next more comfortable, higher tech vehicle.

My van isn't for sale anyway. But you might want to adjust the standard you set for yourself. You say you want a decent aged sprinter that will give you no major problems for the next 200,000 miles. Instead, you need to plan on something major happening during that 200,000 miles. Each of my three 200k windows included a group of repairs that added up to major, or they were the stand alone biggies. The cash reserve is not there to consume while waiting for pay to start hitting your bank account, or fuel, or expected repairs; the reserve is for the unexpected, out of cycle body slams. And any 200k window is asking for a body slam in the window; not after.

I started expediting in a new sprinter on a loan, and I had previous over-the-road driving experience. I wouldn't do it that way if I was to start again. There are links to more vanning topics in my signature line.

eb

 

[troma]

eb, turtle, ryan, d.d., thanks a bunch for taking the time.

From the 1st notion of expedite, I agree that starting with vehicle payments is stacking the deck unfavorably for a start-up endeavor. I also understand the importance of operating capital. I think this is true for most business ventures. Saddled with a monthly nut to crack, and thin reserves set aside for the unplanned leaves you reliant upon hope&good fortune.. (Not a good place to be in any avenue of life, I have tried!). Seems the pressure to take low-paying, or geographically foolish runs would be great just to cover the monthly nut, all the while undermining the long-term health of the business. Kinda like a payday loan.
As far as the sprinter vs cargo van thing, I get the logic of starting lower overhead, but when it comes to being parked, waiting days for a load, I just cringe at the thought of trying to stand up and put on a pair of pants in a cv. I do like the extra space/height for the prospect of extended car camping. I am thinking the extra couple inches of height might go a long way towards overall comfort. For that reason, I am trying to convince myself that a sprinter is a better choice, but most seem to be telling me otherwise.
Another ?:

-When waiting on loads, what kind of freedom is there when waiting? Must you be planted in the driver seat, waiting on the phone to ring? When the phone rings with a load, must you be en route within minutes? For example when you deliver a load to say Buffalo NY, Is it necessary to then stay at nearest truckstop/rest areas to your drop, or is it reasonable to drive 20-50 miles out of town, and still be in striking range of loads? If I am on my 2nd day of waiting, can I go find a river somewhere, put my waders on and grab a fishing rod & wait on the phone to ring, or is that unrealistic? What is a typical time frame of receiving-accepting a load offer, to actually being under way to the pick-up at the shipper? How much time is necessary to allocate to go from waiting to on the way? I understand there is no hard/fast certainty, but, what is a common scenario?

 

[Turtle]

I just cringe at the thought of trying to stand up and put on a pair of pants in a cv. I do like the extra space/height for the prospect of extended car camping. I am thinking the extra couple inches of height might go a long way towards overall comfort. For that reason, I am trying to convince myself that a sprinter is a better choice, but most seem to be telling me otherwise.

A Sprinter is a better choice. It's (one of) the reason I went from a Ford E-350 cargo van to a Sprinter - tired of living on my knees. However, as an entry level vehicle, a Sprinter can be a real problem. A Sprinter has a significant learning curve all on its own. You have to make a commitment to learning how to maintain one. It's not like a Ford or some other North American slop bucket, where you can get away with cheaper oil, one-size-fits-all engine coolant, and cheap oil and fuel filters, it's a Mercedes Benz and needs to be treated like one.

Just learning basic maintenance timetables in expediting can be a challenge. You're doing 5 years worth of maintenance every year, including many things that most vehicle owners never even have to deal with, because they get rid of the car before it needs to be done. You're changing the oil every 6-8 weeks, changing engine air filters 2 or 3 times a year (it's impossible to have air too clean in a diesel engine), fuel filters every other oil change, the transmission fluid in a Sprinter really needs to be changed every 35,000 miles, rear end oil every 100,000 at the latest. Then there's water pumps, alternators, belts, hoses, suspensions, wheel bearings, it's a long list. With a slop bucket you can be a little lax in maintenance, but if you skimp on maintenance with a Sprinter you'll pay dearly for it. You have to make the commitment to learn it, and then do it right.

The learning curve of expediting can be just overwhelming enough to allow you to miss something maintenance-wise. because you're putting so many miles on the vehicle, every time you turn around there's something that needs to be done. You do something, and you need to already be aware of what's coming next. You need to replace wear parts before the fail when you can. Replace them on your terms instead of while under load in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere.

If you can do all that, and the little things and the big things don't get to you, then a Sprinter is the perfect entry vehicle for someone new to expediting.

-When waiting on loads, what kind of freedom is there when waiting?

If you own the truck, it's near total freedom.

Must you be planted in the driver seat, waiting on the phone to ring?

You mean like an Expediter Zombie? You'll see a lot of those out here. They're funny.

When the phone rings with a load, must you be en route within minutes?

Sometimes loads don't pick up for hours, but generally speaking they pick up as soon as you can get there, and dispatchers expect you to be rolling within about 15 minutes.

For example when you deliver a load to say Buffalo NY, Is it necessary to then stay at nearest truckstop/rest areas to your drop, or is it reasonable to drive 20-50 miles out of town, and still be in striking range of loads?

You can go anywhere you want. If you get too far out, though, within striking distance or not, the closest truck to the load often gets it. If you're 50 miles out and someone else is 10 miles out, and the load needs to be picked up in half an hour, there ya go.

If I am on my 2nd day of waiting, can I go find a river somewhere, put my waders on and grab a fishing rod & wait on the phone to ring, or is that unrealistic?

A lot of people do it. You just need to either not get too comfortable out there, or simply go OOS (out of service) while you are recreating. If you are in-service, you really need to be able to roll within 15 minutes.

What is a typical time frame of receiving-accepting a load offer, to actually being under way to the pick-up at the shipper? How much time is necessary to allocate to go from waiting to on the way? I understand there is no hard/fast certainty, but, what is a common scenario?

15 minutes is common. You may get a call at 1PM for a load that doesn't pick up until 2:30PM. But it's 70 miles to the pickup. Which means you don't have a lot of time to waste before you get rolling. Hop to it!

Interestingly, expediting itself is a lot like fishing. You get comfortable, bait the hook, cast the line, and do a lot of nothing. Then, suddenly, it's crazy time and everything is at high panic, until it's over and done with. Then you get comfortable again, and do it all over again.

 

[Daffyduck528]

Interestingly, expediting itself is a lot like fishing. You get comfortable, bait the hook, cast the line, and do a lot of nothing. Then, suddenly, it's crazy time and everything is at high panic, until it's over and done with. Then you get comfortable again, and do it all over again.

That is a great summation of expediting. I may have to borrow that...

 

[Turtle]

That is a great summation of expediting. I may have to borrow that...

Here's how I put it a few years ago, right after I stole the analogy from Terry (I think it was).

Expediting is like fishing. You bait the hook and drop it into the water, waiting for the bobber to bob. You wait, and wait, and wait. And you wait some more. Eventually, you move to another spot where you hope the fishing is better.

Finally, you get a bite and everything goes crazy - you go into full-tilt mode, land the fish, admire it, then things settle down just as quickly and you bait another hook and drop it into the water, waiting for the bobber to bob. And you wait, and wait, and wait. You might get lucky and land another one where you just caught one, but you might have to move again. When you move, you're doing nothing more than moving to wait some more.