60% + fsj + unknown fleet owner

[mcavoy33]

Reading the noob forum got me curious. How many of you would ever sign up as a driver with a fleet owner that you don't know and agree to a 60/40 split with you paying for fuel and getting the fuel surcharge.

For me, that sounds way too risky. The money I have saved up, I wouldn't want to lose it on fuel working for a fleet owner I don't know or trust. I would almost never agree to a 60% split for an unknown owner. I would want to work for him with a 40% split for at least 6 weeks to get a feel for him and how he runs his operation before I put out my fuel money.

But I admittedly don't know how other companies operate, I've only been with the one company and they've agreed to front me fuel money for the first 4 weeks that I switch from driver to o/o and deduct it from my pay.

Reading the fleet owner threads doesn't make me want to trust fleet owners even if they are in the rarity. Its why I don't think I'd ever want to work for a large company like Panther or FedEx where I couldn't talk to the owner of the carrier and get his opinion about a fleet owner.

In reality, what do you guys do when changing fleet owners for whatever reason?

 

[TSexpediter]

So you don't trust the fleet owner but the fleet owner trust you enough to give an expensive equipment to operate. The reason that you pay for the fuel and receive 100% FSC is because you have 60 and he 40. If you don't trust in a fleet owner why do you not operate your own vehicle ?

 

[davekc]

If you don't know the fleet owner, may be wise to ask for current and past drivers phone numbers. Just might be a good idea.
As far as fuel money with the big carriers, I think they all advance the fuel money when you pick up the load. At that point depending on the carrier, you already have three quarters of your pay.
No need to complicate the simple.

 

[FREE TO FAIL]

Well it really depends on what the fs (fuel surcharge) is.... a crappy carrier pays less then the true fs. A good carrier pays true fs based on the weekly national average. Let me give you an example. Landstar pays true fs. currently 47 cents a mile. so if you have a 1000 mile run you get 470.00 now if your truck gets 10 miles to the gallon you need 100 gallons to make the run. if fuel is 3.99 a gallon average your fuel costs (before discount) would be $399.00 you actually make money on the fuel. This extra takes care of your deadhead and idieling. Now at a not so good carrier with a new flat rate program you get 33 cents a mile. well your fuel cost is still the same but it costs you now $66.00 plus your deadhead and idieling.

Additionally you are getting 60 percent of the run vs 40 percent. Lets take one dollar linehaul as a baseline. on a 1000 mile run the driver pay would be 600.00 vs 400.00 a 200 improvement for the driver. or about 50 percent more, not shabby so the difference between the two drivers would be 1070.00 dollars vs 400.00 dollars. After removing the costs of the run fuel from the pay, 60 percent driver is still ahead by over 270 dollars.

Now their are some intangables to consider as well if your receive a good discount via the corporate fleet discount, thats money in your pocket, if you keep your foot out of the pedal, more money for you.

Lastly, If you pay the fuel you are the master of your destiny,no begging the owner for fuel or argueing about getting home ect. You make the call. You want to just grip a steering wheel good for you, you want to be a business person with an eye to maximizing his return well it takes more effort but the rewards are better. I dont hire 40 percenters for the simple reason that a driver making good money has got a vested interest in running efficently keeping the truck up and making good business decisions.

 

[mcavoy33]

So you don't trust the fleet owner but the fleet owner trust you enough to give an expensive equipment to operate. The reason that you pay for the fuel and receive 100% FSC is because you have 60 and he 40. If you don't trust in a fleet owner why do you not operate your own vehicle ?

I'm merely asking what other people do. If I was a fleet owner, I wouldn't trust someone until I verified their experience. As a driver, that is my point, why should I trust a fleet owner blindly?

 

[mcavoy33]

jdevidts,

I understand the math behind taking 60% vs 40. That isn't the issue, I'm talking about relationships with fleet owners. I'm looking for real life experiences of what people do.

 

[davekc]

Well it really depends on what the fs (fuel surcharge) is.... a crappy carrier pays less then the true fs. A good carrier pays true fs based on the weekly national average. Let me give you an example. Landstar pays true fs. currently 47 cents a mile. so if you have a 1000 mile run you get 470.00 now if your truck gets 10 miles to the gallon you need 100 gallons to make the run. if fuel is 3.99 a gallon average your fuel costs (before discount) would be $399.00 you actually make money on the fuel. This extra takes care of your deadhead and idieling. Now at a not so good carrier with a new flat rate program you get 33 cents a mile. well your fuel cost is still the same but it costs you now $66.00 plus your deadhead and idieling.

Additionally you are getting 60 percent of the run vs 40 percent. Lets take one dollar linehaul as a baseline. on a 1000 mile run the driver pay would be 600.00 vs 400.00 a 200 improvement for the driver. or about 50 percent more, not shabby so the difference between the two drivers would be 1070.00 dollars vs 400.00 dollars. After removing the costs of the run fuel from the pay, 60 percent driver is still ahead by over 270 dollars.

Now their are some intangables to consider as well if your receive a good discount via the corporate fleet discount, thats money in your pocket, if you keep your foot out of the pedal, more money for you.

Lastly, If you pay the fuel you are the master of your destiny,no begging the owner for fuel or argueing about getting home ect. You make the call. You want to just grip a steering wheel good for you, you want to be a business person with an eye to maximizing his return well it takes more effort but the rewards are better. I dont hire 40 percenters for the simple reason that a driver making good money has got a vested interest in running efficently keeping the truck up and making good business decisions.

I do find it amazing looking at the occasional EO ads, how many are the "steering wheel holders".
Always feels funny explaining to someone that you make more with the 60/40 split, but they will still argue with you and say they can only do the 40 percent even though it is less money.
It is almost laughable sometimes unless they are running for low FSC or DH all over creation.

 

[Turtle]

Whether you get 40% or 60%, there's 20% that's gonna go for fuel, whether it comes out of the owner's 60% or your 60%. It's not coming out of "your money" that you've saved up or anything else, it's coming right off the top of the loaded miles revenue, regardless of whether you get it first or the owner gets it first. The remaining 80% gets split down the middle between you and the owner.

If you take the 40% and the owner pays for fuel, he is taking the risk of you idling 24/7 and wasting fuel driving all over the place for no valid reason, eating up not only fuel, but wear and tear on the engine and other parts of the vehicle. If you pay for the fuel and get the 60%, you'll be more miserly with that 20%, and if you're smart about it you can even make money off it, as fuel and tolls are usually slightly less than 20% of revenue.

 

[mcavoy33]

If you don't know the fleet owner, may be wise to ask for current and past drivers phone numbers. Just might be a good idea.
As far as fuel money with the big carriers, I think they all advance the fuel money when you pick up the load. At that point depending on the carrier, you already have three quarters of your pay.
No need to complicate the simple.

Alright, that is what I was getting at, I didn't know what the standard was with other carriers.

So if my carrier is only going to give me fuel money for the first month up front, I'm looking at probably a worse deal in some regards than other carriers.

 

[TSexpediter]

I'm merely asking what other people do. If I was a fleet owner, I wouldn't trust someone until I verified their experience. As a driver, that is my point, why should I trust a fleet owner blindly?

You do not have to trust him blindly. Ask him if you can call 2-3 drivers from his fleet and call them. It is so simple. The fleet owner put a lot of money in his trucks, so trust me his goal is not to take your fuel money...

 

[chefdennis]

Or...drive for a owner that is with a carrier that issues a company fuel card...does NOT charge you ANYTHING to use it....subtracts the fuel cost from the settlement before the owner gets paid and also issues a % discount that is paid to the owner....

But really, as was pointed out...if you feel you can't trust an owner...you are looking to drive a sprinter or that type of unit...buy one used, they are cheap enough and you don't have to worry about it...I mean as soon as you told me that you wanted to drive MY equipment, but you don't trust me....lol..do you really think you'd be driving my (or any owners) equipment??? Oh and before ypu say you would tell an owner that...you better hope that you never try and drive for an owner that is on here reading this....

 

[Camper]

The issue of trust cuts both ways. If anything, the owner bears more risk than the driver, given that it's his/her equipment that's at stake in the relationship.

Posted with my Droid EO Forum App

 

[mcavoy33]

But really, as was pointed out...if you feel you can't trust an owner...you are looking to drive a sprinter or that type of unit...buy one used, they are cheap enough and you don't have to worry about it...I mean as soon as you told me that you wanted to drive MY equipment, but you don't trust me....lol..do you really think you'd be driving my (or any owners) equipment??? Oh and before ypu say you would tell an owner that...you better hope that you never try and drive for an owner that is on here reading this....

I was mostly asking about s/t's because that is the most common scenario around here. I'm merely trying to get an understanding of relationships between fleet owners and drivers given the recent discussions. As you pointed out, used sprinters are cheap and not considered expensive equipment.

But you guys crack me up. Your hilarious. I really don't have anything to hide, I'm not afraid to ask questions to try to learn the industry. I'd rather ask stupid questions then learn the hard way.

But its lol the way you guys constantly try to scare people, oh no, you'll never get a job from EO because you don't trust fleet owners after 5 threads about fleet owners ripping off drivers.

You guys are entertaining, I'll give you that much.

I'm curious by your standards, will I have a better chance of getting a job from an EO poster if I say I trust people blindly and won't ever ask any questions and will follow you off a cliff? Is that the type of driver you want to hire?

 

[FREE TO FAIL]

I have a hard time swallowing that you eat up 20 percent of the revenue in tolls and dh fuel. In my example you would have to deadhead 500 miles in order to eat that money up. If the deadhead is that horrific you as a business person better have made sure you got compensated for it somewhere. Using my carrier as an example again. If a load had that much deadhead the brokers add some deadhead pay to it. That money goes directly to the driver of course right off the top.

Now alot of times if a driver has a big deadhead after a load like to edmonton ab., I often will kick in 150 to 200 to help him cover it, its good business cause the loads usually have a pretty good linehaul figure. As far as tolls go, the linehual again better refect a rate high enough to absorb it. Of course if your on one of those terrific flat rate carrier programs well it sucks to be you.

 

[EnglishLady]

You are quite correct - there have been threads on "bad owners', so there is no harm whatsoever in seeking the best answers - thats what EO is for ...


IMO, I think this is the best answer so far, because an owner who has nothing to fear, will willingly give out this info


TSExpediter
You do not have to trust him blindly. Ask him if you can call 2-3 drivers from his fleet and call them. It is so simple. The fleet owner put a lot of money in his trucks, so trust me his goal is not to take your fuel money...

 

[ATeam]

I'm merely asking what other people do. If I was a fleet owner, I wouldn't trust someone until I verified their experience. As a driver, that is my point, why should I trust a fleet owner blindly?

In our case, with our first fleet owner, when we first began as expediters with no experience, the fleet owner decided he knew enough about us to trust us with his truck. We did not go in blind but did not know him either. We decided we knew enough about him to give his 60/40 deal a shot.

The risk was not that great for us. Had it not worked out, we would have only needed to return the truck. We might have lost money on fuel doing so or lost money that he did not pay if he turned out to be crooked (he did not) but that would not be the end of the world. A deal gone bad might mean money lost, and money spent for a rental truck home (to take our gear with us), but once we got back home, everything would be good again.

On the other hand, had we gone into a situation that later turned bad and we were broke going in, we would have been at the fleet owner's mercy and begging for help to get home. That would be far worse.

When we began, the absolute worse case in a deal gone bad would have been a loss of $2,000 or $3,000 out of pocket to cover the cost of returning the owner's truck and then the cost of a rental truck to get home with our gear, plus the loss of any money a crooked fleet owner improperly withheld. Had that happened, it would not have been the end of the story as we would go quickly to court to recover what was ours and be made whole again.

You can't just waltz up to a fleet owner and get started. You must do the best research you can before you begin and be prepared for the worst. That does not mean saying "OK, I'm prepared for the worst." It means really, really being prepared for the worst; like having a way to get home on your own and being prepared to fight if a fight develops.

We interviewed a number of fleet owners before we started and some begged off early on. With the benefit of hindsight, I think some of them did so because we did not fit the victim profile they sought. They were not interested in a mutually beneficial and mutually profitable partnership. They wanted to be the boss.

Regarding risking money you saved to pay for fuel when starting with an unknown fleet owner, expediting is a risky business. The failure rate is high. You mitigate your risks by driving safe and doing everything you can to make good business decisions but if it is risk you seek to avoid, this endeavor should also be avoided.

 

[Rocketman]

You do not have to trust him blindly. Ask him if you can call 2-3 drivers from his fleet and call them. It is so simple. The fleet owner put a lot of money in his trucks, so trust me his goal is not to take your fuel money...

You would hope that this would be the case, but there are some real horror stories out there. I had never considered what Mcavoy asked about, but it does make sense. What if you buy the fuel for a week, 2 weeks, whatever only to find the owner is broke and not paying. You not only loose the income, but the fuel money.

I would think that the only solutions is if the company does advance the fuel money to the driver like some have mentioned. If the company your leased to doesn't offer that option, I would probably just want to do the 40% and let the FO buy the fuel.

It's a good question Mcavoy.

 

[cheri1122]

Reading the noob forum got me curious. How many of you would ever sign up as a driver with a fleet owner that you don't know and agree to a 60/40 split with you paying for fuel and getting the fuel surcharge.

I would, and have, 4 times now . Each owner came recommended by someone whose judgement I trust, and not one of them was dishonest. I'd say they'd all welcome me back, but one is deceased, one went bankrupt and lost all trucks [ due to medical bills, not poor business skills], and the one who would still put me in a truck runs less than desirable equipment - but he's honest, lol.
Mr Snappy introduced me to the owner I drive for now, and after 2 years, I feel confident that I will remain with this owner until I hang up the keys.

For me, that sounds way too risky. The money I have saved up, I wouldn't want to lose it on fuel working for a fleet owner I don't know or trust. I would almost never agree to a 60% split for an unknown owner. I would want to work for him with a 40% split for at least 6 weeks to get a feel for him and how he runs his operation before I put out my fuel money.

I wouldn't want the owner to pay for fuel - I control the consumption [careful or wasteful] and the deadhead, not the owner. If he paid for fuel, I'd feel guilty every time I want to go to Walmart, or home - or would I need to ask permission to go? No, thanks.

But I admittedly don't know how other companies operate, I've only been with the one company and they've agreed to front me fuel money for the first 4 weeks that I switch from driver to o/o and deduct it from my pay.

Reading the fleet owner threads doesn't make me want to trust fleet owners even if they are in the rarity. Its why I don't think I'd ever want to work for a large company like Panther or FedEx where I couldn't talk to the owner of the carrier and get his opinion about a fleet owner.

In reality, what do you guys do when changing fleet owners for whatever reason?

If you're not in a hurry, just put the word out to the folks you trust, and when a good owner has a truck open, they'll let you know.
If you're in a hurry, same thing, but also ask recruiting at whatever carriers you would drive for, because they know the fleet owners. Their suggestions should be scrutinized more thoroughly [contact info from current/previous drivers] than what you get from known sources.
Seriously, the amount of info on bad owners is just human nature: we're more likely to speak up when we're unhappy about something.

 

[davekc]

I would agree with Cheri. Only the bad ever seems to get mentioned. Kinda the same with drivers. There is good out there, one just has to be patient and look.

 

[chefdennis]

Any Business owner with any common sense wouldn't enter into any businessarrangement blindly on any topic within any business...just as any business owner with common sense would go into any business arrangement with anyone who stated that they openly distrusted business owners....And while you may drive a truck for someone, you are still in business for yourself and a "business owner"...

As was pointed out, the knife cuts both ways...

And yes, this is the best advise that was posted:

TSExpediter wrote:

You do not have to trust him blindly. Ask him if you can call 2-3 drivers from his fleet and call them. It is so simple. The fleet owner put a lot of money in his trucks, so trust me his goal is not to take your fuel money...

As for trying to scare you, nope, just sharing facts...